Well LittleLuck that was quite a rant about a lot of things regarding deer hunting. What all hunters want is for our deer to forever run free in our wild lands nationwide! I think every hunter if he/she is a hunter wants that. The fact is we DON'T KNOW -YET! Scientists in a lot of states and provinces are working trying to understand what we have on our hands and if there is a threat long term to our deer and elk populations and if it can become a problem for the human population. What I want is for people to understand that this disease is no joke. We need to continue to demand the DNR studies the disease and find out all we can
Wisconsin Hunting Reports/Discussion
CWD in Wisconsin
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CWD will never be eliminated or controlled unless herd is virtually wiped out for a few years. Bugs the snot out of me regarding baiting ban. Game farm deer gets infected, and feeding ban put in place? How dumb is that? Eliminate the deer farm, as CWD will always exist with prions in penned up area with 30-50 deer. That in no way should affect general public ban. Public land deer hunters get the shaft, trying to compete with legal private food plots that are never harvested. Deer congregating in same agricultural fields and private food plots day after day after day. Private land owners manage the deer herd. Not the DNR. More deer than ever now on private, as public land mainly barren of deer or food. DNR want more hunters? Easy fix.
Appreciate your thoughts JC. Consider checking into scrapie disease in sheep. It's also a TSE / misfolded protien prion disease. It's been around for over 250 years.
When the best experts in the world say it's a misfolded protien called a prion, that's good enough for me. And it's what I'll go with until they learn more about it and say it's something different. Throwing in the towel or sticking my head in the sand is not how I operate. Always need to learn and grow to make progress.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/sa_animal_disease_information/sheep-goat/disease-info/index
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapie
When the best experts in the world say it's a misfolded protien called a prion, that's good enough for me. And it's what I'll go with until they learn more about it and say it's something different. Throwing in the towel or sticking my head in the sand is not how I operate. Always need to learn and grow to make progress.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/sa_animal_disease_information/sheep-goat/disease-info/index
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapie
Some of my feelings with CWD spending and management:
1) Spending money on research for how to manage the deer herd to stop the progression of CWD - complete waste of money, it can't be managed out of the wild. The only way to stop the spread from a management perspective is to kill all deer in an area, keep it void of deer for years, and then reintroduce deer at a later time. Not going to happen, let alone it is impossible to do. Kill all the deer to make sure they don't catch CWD? That's management! Studying CWD propagation, population control studies, old bucks vs. young buck potential spread....makes no difference, the disease will spread. Maybe it can be slowed down and delay things for a couple of years, but the cat is already out of the bag.
2) Spending money on research for potential vectors - toss up. I would guess alfalfa, ticks, scavengers and predators potentially have a larger role than currently known. To guys 100% on board with prion theory, this would be an important one to study. If found that ticks are a huge cause, perhaps that can be addressed. If crows are flying everywhere dropping bombs of prions from above....that might be good to know.... (I still am skeptical on the idea that a chunk of protein without DNA/RNA is the cause of a disease anyway, so is looking for prions in vectors even an indication these vectors are spreading the disease? Again for me...toss up, but at least not a complete waste of money).
3) As far as baiting bans - complete waste of effort, and potentially pushes more hunters out of the sport, which curtails population management, as the only human-managed tool DNR has to reduce deer populations are enough hunters. Baiting bans don't work to curtail a disease with such long incubation periods, but at least "we did something." Doing "something" doesn't work. Side affect of less retail sales and loss of some hunters is for nothing gained from the CWD perspective. Taking away the freedom of placing a food product on the ground is a lot to digest.
4) Spending money on vaccine development - probably a good idea either way. If prions are the true cause of disease (and not some sort of symptom of an infection or other environmental/biological issue), a lot will be learned (by failure and success), and it may potentially lead to more applicable therapies for Parkinsons, CJD, etc. as these diseases are so similar.
5) Spending money on disease testing? Should be up to the consumer - if the consumer wants it tested, pay for it. Since human cases haven't been identified while the virus has been active for probably over 60 years, some people would be rightfully upset to use their tax dollars to pay for someone else's test. If it isn't a concern for them whether or not a deer has a different chunk of protein, why should they pay for your test?
I say save the money and invest it in our wolf program to ensure their population is viable. Use the funding to annually release wolves in Dane County to ensure the species thrives.
1) Spending money on research for how to manage the deer herd to stop the progression of CWD - complete waste of money, it can't be managed out of the wild. The only way to stop the spread from a management perspective is to kill all deer in an area, keep it void of deer for years, and then reintroduce deer at a later time. Not going to happen, let alone it is impossible to do. Kill all the deer to make sure they don't catch CWD? That's management! Studying CWD propagation, population control studies, old bucks vs. young buck potential spread....makes no difference, the disease will spread. Maybe it can be slowed down and delay things for a couple of years, but the cat is already out of the bag.
2) Spending money on research for potential vectors - toss up. I would guess alfalfa, ticks, scavengers and predators potentially have a larger role than currently known. To guys 100% on board with prion theory, this would be an important one to study. If found that ticks are a huge cause, perhaps that can be addressed. If crows are flying everywhere dropping bombs of prions from above....that might be good to know.... (I still am skeptical on the idea that a chunk of protein without DNA/RNA is the cause of a disease anyway, so is looking for prions in vectors even an indication these vectors are spreading the disease? Again for me...toss up, but at least not a complete waste of money).
3) As far as baiting bans - complete waste of effort, and potentially pushes more hunters out of the sport, which curtails population management, as the only human-managed tool DNR has to reduce deer populations are enough hunters. Baiting bans don't work to curtail a disease with such long incubation periods, but at least "we did something." Doing "something" doesn't work. Side affect of less retail sales and loss of some hunters is for nothing gained from the CWD perspective. Taking away the freedom of placing a food product on the ground is a lot to digest.
4) Spending money on vaccine development - probably a good idea either way. If prions are the true cause of disease (and not some sort of symptom of an infection or other environmental/biological issue), a lot will be learned (by failure and success), and it may potentially lead to more applicable therapies for Parkinsons, CJD, etc. as these diseases are so similar.
5) Spending money on disease testing? Should be up to the consumer - if the consumer wants it tested, pay for it. Since human cases haven't been identified while the virus has been active for probably over 60 years, some people would be rightfully upset to use their tax dollars to pay for someone else's test. If it isn't a concern for them whether or not a deer has a different chunk of protein, why should they pay for your test?
I say save the money and invest it in our wolf program to ensure their population is viable. Use the funding to annually release wolves in Dane County to ensure the species thrives.
There is no solution. The attached research paper details how the prions are absorbed into plants and then passed on the mammals. Norway has already banned importation of animal forage. I personally also believe CWD is carried by vultures and raptors that feed on infected carcasses only to migrate long distance to excrete the prions in new locales. Their digestive systems are not strong enough to kill the prions. Luckily the Human prion barrier appears to be holding at this time.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/chronic-wasting-disease/plants-can-take-cwd-causing-prions-soil-lab-what-happens-if-they-are-eaten
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/chronic-wasting-disease/plants-can-take-cwd-causing-prions-soil-lab-what-happens-if-they-are-eaten
FB, what are your ideas for action?
Of course I don't want it down to the decimal point. But your response points to a lack of understanding what the numbers actually mean. Not all deer are tested. You can test the same number of deer every year, at the same expense, to see if the disease is becoming more prevalent, less prevalent, or staying the same. Without it, how do you know where the state stands on the CWD front? BTW, the testing reveals that CWD is getting more prevalent in Wisconsin.
Now if you want to take a stand that you don't care or are not worried about CWD, you certainly can, and many do. But then don't whine in 10, 20, or 30 years if CWD ruins your deer hunting because you didn't want any money spent studying and trying to understand it and remediate it.
I like to hunt bigger bucks. My main concern with CWD is that older bucks are more prone to the disease and may become fewer and fewer in the wild which would affect my hunting and enjoyment of the sport. If folks are only concerned about venison for the freezer, then their concerns about CWD are probably lower. And that is a perfectly legitimate perspective also. As are concerns or lack of concern about eating infected deer. (I'm not overly concerned at this point, and don't get my deer tested yet. But I am glad folks are studying that aspect also and that I have the option to test if I want to.)
I try not to make my values, your values. And I'd appreciate you not making your values more important or of higher piority than other people's.
Of course I don't want it down to the decimal point. But your response points to a lack of understanding what the numbers actually mean. Not all deer are tested. You can test the same number of deer every year, at the same expense, to see if the disease is becoming more prevalent, less prevalent, or staying the same. Without it, how do you know where the state stands on the CWD front? BTW, the testing reveals that CWD is getting more prevalent in Wisconsin.
Now if you want to take a stand that you don't care or are not worried about CWD, you certainly can, and many do. But then don't whine in 10, 20, or 30 years if CWD ruins your deer hunting because you didn't want any money spent studying and trying to understand it and remediate it.
I like to hunt bigger bucks. My main concern with CWD is that older bucks are more prone to the disease and may become fewer and fewer in the wild which would affect my hunting and enjoyment of the sport. If folks are only concerned about venison for the freezer, then their concerns about CWD are probably lower. And that is a perfectly legitimate perspective also. As are concerns or lack of concern about eating infected deer. (I'm not overly concerned at this point, and don't get my deer tested yet. But I am glad folks are studying that aspect also and that I have the option to test if I want to.)
I try not to make my values, your values. And I'd appreciate you not making your values more important or of higher piority than other people's.
Gillespie said: "I agree that money needs to be spent researching all aspects of CWD, including prevalence in the wild. If you don't know how many deer have it, how will you ever know if your effors to remediate, contain, control, eradicate, treat it, etc. are working?"
The number of CWD infected deer are published every year by the DNR, within one percentage point. Why on earth would more money be needed to be spent on that? Do you want it down to one-tenth of one percent ?!?
The only effort being used to "remediate, contain, control, eradicate, treat, etc." is a baiting ban, and I'll tell you how that's working for free: it doesn't.
The number of CWD infected deer are published every year by the DNR, within one percentage point. Why on earth would more money be needed to be spent on that? Do you want it down to one-tenth of one percent ?!?
The only effort being used to "remediate, contain, control, eradicate, treat, etc." is a baiting ban, and I'll tell you how that's working for free: it doesn't.
Turkey, we probably think closer alike on this issue than we realize as long as we both believe CWD exists and results in deer dying from the disease.
Part of the reason why hunters likely disagree on this issue is that deer that die from CWD do not all die within a short window of time like they do with EHD or some other quick acting diseases. Since dead CWD deer don't litter the land and provide that visual evidence, some folks don't think CWD is a problem or kills deer.
Fish and wildlife are dying everyday in the wild. How often do you come across carcasses? Not often, in fact it's rare. That doesn't mean they are not dying. It means they are either hard to see, or more likely, that nature is very efficient at cleaning them up. It's literally a dog eat dog world out there and protein free for the taking is not going to stick around long in the wild.
I agree that money needs to be spent researching all aspects of CWD, including prevalence in the wild. If you don't know how many deer have it, how will you ever know if your effors to remediate, contain, control, eradicate, treat it, etc. are working?
Part of the reason why hunters likely disagree on this issue is that deer that die from CWD do not all die within a short window of time like they do with EHD or some other quick acting diseases. Since dead CWD deer don't litter the land and provide that visual evidence, some folks don't think CWD is a problem or kills deer.
Fish and wildlife are dying everyday in the wild. How often do you come across carcasses? Not often, in fact it's rare. That doesn't mean they are not dying. It means they are either hard to see, or more likely, that nature is very efficient at cleaning them up. It's literally a dog eat dog world out there and protein free for the taking is not going to stick around long in the wild.
I agree that money needs to be spent researching all aspects of CWD, including prevalence in the wild. If you don't know how many deer have it, how will you ever know if your effors to remediate, contain, control, eradicate, treat it, etc. are working?
Gillespie - I've never said that prions weren't real or aren't the cause of CWD and I've never tried to post links to articles to prove otherwise. In fact that is exactly what I've been saying - that they are real and we need to find out how to kill/eliminate those prions that cause the folded proteins and cause CWD and that will protect our deer herd. What I'm saying is that spending millions upon millions of $'s testing dead deer (and now live deer) to prove that they had/have CWD is pointless and a waste of $$. It's the same darn thing they've been doing for over 50 years and it's just spinning the wheels and going nowhere. If they insist on spending that $$ it should be spent researching how to eliminate those prions.
Displaying 61 to 75 of 423 posts
