Siwash single hooks versus treble hooks on spoons.

Everyone: While everyone is anxiously waiting for spring, I have a question to field? I am asking information as to the benefits or negatives of using siwash single hooks instead of treble hooks on 4" and 5" salmon spoons? I realize their probably are valid reasons for using both types, I just want opinions from those who have actually tried the siwash type hooks on spoons. Also, if you can aid me in establishing correct sizing of siwash hooks to replace specific sizes of treble hooks to keep the spoons in balance when trolling would be appreciated. Should the siwash hook face the painted side or the belly side of the spoon? My reasons for possibly going to siwash hooks is that I have lost several big fish in the net (treble getting hung up) and the fish flopping free, and I have also ended up twice with a hook in my hand dehooking large fish. I am open to opinions! Thanks.

Ditto- Let us know if you can find out what brand those flys are. I've been looking for some flys setup like that for some time now. I see a lot of "tournament rigged" ones but have yet to find any rigged with two single hooks like you describe. I've tried making some of my own, but snelling hooks with 50lb is a PITA. I've always thought that "crawler harness" rigging would work awesome.

Not sure of the brand fly but I use one that has two single Siwash hooks rigged opposite of each other and these are KILLER on salmon! The double single hook has a scary high hooking to landing percentage.

lukcylou - Do you use a split ring pliers to change out the hooks? Saves the fingers. I too like the "tournament rigging" (single hook followed by treble) on flies.

There are many who do think you hook fewer fish with singles. "With trebles you hook three times the fish" one guide claims. I will side with the single hook fans that, once hooked, you definitely lose fewer fish. Athletic rainbows doing aerial flips have a knack for using the spoon to lever the tines of a treble out during a battle. No harm in having a popular color with some in singles and some in treble. "Charles Kirby (whom Issac Walton called "the most exact and best Hook-maker this (British) nation affords" as quoted from Soucie's book; was the first to bend the point to "offset" or "Kirb" the point angle.

I had great success last year using single hooks while musky fishing and wondered if using them for salmon would be beneficial. I would agree that they have a better catch rate once they are hooked but do you guys think they miss some hookups because of only one hook?

To all that contributed to this discussion topic, I would like to thank you for your knowledge and eloquence in stating your opinions. I learned much in reading your replies. Thanking each of you.

Last year I switched to all Siwash single hooks after a tug of war with an 18lb king who decided to give me a taste of my own medicine. To my surprise my loss fish % rate dropped, as everyone here stated in most cases a fish hooked on a large single will have the point penetrating his outer skin cradling the jaw bone. Little did I know last year when I made this switch that over this past winter I was to develope a medical condition which requires taking blood thinners (Warfarin). I can just imagin the scenario from last year if I would have been on this medication at that time, it takes me an hour, and 2 rolls of toilet paper to stop a shaving nick now! In addition to using all singles I have purchased a Fish Pic this year. The Pic is inserted through the underside of the fish's gills and exits it mouth which forces the fish's mouth open and keeps the hanging fish from thrashing while removing the hook. Hopefully with the single hooks and the Fish Pic I will be able to continue fishing for many years to come. FYI. Gamakatsu has just recently come out with a new line of Siwash Hooks called Big River. This hook has a unique shape to it and although I have not tried it yet, I have tied several meat rigs with it and will try it on the first spoon that now has a standard Siwash should I need to change out. Hope this info gives everyone a little different perspective on the single hook issue. Tight lines to all and be safe out there this season.

Good post SSlayer. I also Kirb all my singles and note worthy that most octopus hooks come that way. Interesting that your hook diagram spelled "kirb" with a C. Grey Beard

I have used the siwash (single) hooks on all of my spoons for 30 years. When I first started fishing on Lake Michigan I used the trolling spoons the way the manufacture rigged them. There were a few spoons that came rigged with siwash hooks at the time. I found that once hooked on a spoon rigged with a siwash hook I rarely lost the fish because the siwash hooks penetrated deeper. So I agree with ditto on siwash hooks penetrating better. I also agree with Grey Beard in that there are fewer releases without a fish getting hooked solid enough to land. And Yatch’s point on hook removal is also valid. I have caught many fish where the siwash hook had gone through the fish’s jaw and “gaffed” the jaw bone. I’ve also caught many fish where the siwash hooks have penetrated the Maxilla of the fish’s mouth. See attached pictures. For a hook to completely penetrate a fish’s jaw it must be sharp and large enough to allow the hook to encircle the bones of the fish’s mouth. Siwash hooks by design have longer shanks than a treble hook of the same size. The additional hook shank length allows for greater penetration. Treble hooks also at times allow the fish to leverage a free hook during the fight that either enlarges the hole from the stuck hook or causes the fish’s mouth flesh to tear, either scenario results in a lost fish and a frustrated angler. Treble hooks seem to catch the net way too often as well when compared to a siwash hook. And when you do get two or three of the treble hook barbs in a fish’s mouth the hook removal is a nightmare that usually results in bent hooks and sometimes a hooked fisherman. As for hook sizes I recommend 3/0 for spoons that range from 2-3/4” to 3-3/4”. For spoons that measure 4” to 5” I use 4/0. For spoons that are 5-1/2” to 7” long I use 5/0 hooks. As for which hooks to use I like the VMC Perma Steel V9171PS which come with an open eye that makes changing hooks easier. I install the siwash hook on the spoon with the point down (facing the spoon bottom). One point on using the VMC V9171PS when replacing a treble hook on a spoon. For those who are concerned about adversely affecting the spoons action due to the difference in weight between a siwash hook verses the spoon’s stock treble hook. I have checked the weights of the treble hooks against the VMC V9171PS and found them to be nearly identical. The VMC V9171PS are a little heavier duty hooks and are sharp right out of the box. I do use a tool and die makers file (4-1/2’ long, double cut basterd) to keep the point tapered evenly and sharp. Offsetting the barb from the shank “kirbing” of the siwash hook also increases hook ups as the hook stands a slightly better chance on not sliding out of fish’s mouth if the fish has the spoon into its mouth. See attached photo. Kirbing (putting a 5° to 10° offset between the barb and shank) gives a wider presentation that allows the hook to not just follow the thickness of the spoon blank as it exits the closed mouth of a fish. Good Luck

Seems that if you hook one on a single hook you will get a nice lip piercing effect and they will stay on. I like the singles alot. Enough to change all my trebles over to singles....not quite. I really have confidence in them though. If it comes with a single thats the way I run in, and if my treble gets bent I replace it with a single.

Grey Beard's info is spot on. I went to single hooks to minimize net hassles and it worked!

First I don't know what a Siwash single hook is. BUT, all my spoons are single hooks and I have been using them for 10 years at least. #1 reason I fish solo most of the time and by far a single hook is easier to get the fish out of the net. I also fish early and late into the season and catch a lot of lakers out of season, they are boat side released without damaging the fish. I question the mortality rate of a laker out of season that is netted, laid on the floor and a trebble is pulled out of the netting and the fish. My hook up rate is as good or better than a trebble. I match the hook size to the spoon most of the time but I do use a larger hook at times on a small spoon when kings like the small stuff better early in the season. I have friends that use trebbles that came with the spoon and when I fish with them our first comment on a lost fish is usually about the hook being used. (must have been the HOOK)

Treble vs single has been a topic of debate forever. I agree there are properties that are positives for both. I have been in camp for singles on spoons for many yrs and use 3/0 siwash on small spoons, 4/0 on regular 3 ¾” and 5/0 on mags. I change out for Gamakatsu but there are other good brands that come very sharp out of the package. I have the hook so the point up is on the belly side, opposite of the painted side. Considering how spoons run in the water the point up should result in more hookups in the upper jaw and that doesn’t move so may result in better landing percentage. I think you may get more trip offs with trebles but once a release occurs I think you land a better percentage with singles. Singles are by far easier to remove and yes rarely foul in the net. I use this style hook remover pulling the line tight and parallel to the entry angle of the hook with my left hand and with my right hand pull the hook. This virtually eliminates bent hooks. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Rapala-Hook-Remover/737584.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dhook%2Bremover%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts%26x%3D29%26y%3D6&Ntt=hook+remover&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products I do use trebles on my J plug harness but only one and that reduces problems in the net. Also no fish with the second hook along the side of the head that results in the time consuming twirl. I did try a single siwash on Js and too many 5 second screamers. I do have some tournament tied flies with one octopus and one treble and not sure if they are any better than two octopus. Grey Beard

I try to run Siwash hooks on all my spoons. I have a much better catch ratio with the single hook over the treble hook. With trebles it seems they don't penetrate very much but single hooks are almost always all the way through the jaw. Plus I don't like it when the treble hooks the mouth closed and the fish doesn't get water through it's gills and then doesn't fight very much.