I hunt where they have a minimum 4 pt side to be legal (SE Minnesota) but have not seen much improvement other than many basket deer. I am against antler point restrictions figuring a deer is a trophy to different people for different reasons and why should we legally change that.
That said, wondering if there is a better way. Alternating years-one year-4pt minimum, next year, smaller only, that way these basket deer survive to get big.
Thoughts?
Brush brother - i said it before. Some of the most knowledgeable guys i know started on public many still hunt it but have both now. I like public, some of it. I won't go to the Northwoods willingly although i have taken some pretty nice deer up in Phillips and around rock damn in Clark. It was never easy but thats what makes a person want it even more. If it was easy on private i wouldn't do it. One reason why i don't shoot 1 2 or even 3 year olds. Even though its private, the smaller wisconsin parcels make it fairly difficult to kill a big one in most cases. Sure i do the food plots and such but you almost have to. I didn't start the fad, the big chit show commercialization of hunting and shows did. If i don't put in plots when all the neighbors do you pretty much watch deer walk around w no particular pattern just that they are leaving to go find food. When you have food you have doe groups...when you have doe groups you will have bucks looking during the rut. Private is not all that easy as PLH makes it seem. I don't have 1000 acres w farm hands watering and fertilizing and grooming trails for me. I know its the stereotype when it comes to private but that picture is painted differently depending on who you talk to. Most private land is organized chaos. 4 dudes on 80 acres, thats more pressure than public in most cases. When you have a neighbor or two like that its not always as easy as one would think. We have 160 and barely hunt it till rut cause the neighbors beat the snot out of theirs. The deer are educated by week 2. If we don't leave ours sit, you literally dont see much.
That said, i have a lot of respect for the public land guys. Both situations are different but somewhat the the same. Only difference is public you have 1000s of acres to get away from others. Which is a great positive. Bad thing is it can get really abused. My biggest issue w public was bird hunters, squirrel and what ever other bs. Mushroom hunters, dog walkers etc. Other hunters walking umder your stand at 5 pm. Gotta love that. I don't miss that part
I do agree with that. I'd never hunt northern wi public. Comparing northern and southern public shouldn't ever be in the same conversation. I grew up hunting Clark Co public.
I'd hunt public in buffalo co and few other fantastic public spots in central. People that hunt the northwoods are super dedicated and just enjoy the challenge of seeing a deer much less shooting one....or they are just plain stupid cause there are so many more public opportunities. I see many deer driving by public on the way back to our cabin. Many times I say, I should jump in there and shoot one of those doe.
"Most years half the state is doe free. 2017 is different but half the state is severely limited in the number of does that can be shot. Yes I'm a liar."
Well, at least your 3rd sentence is true, I'll give you that. Most years half the state is doe free, I proved that wrong yesterday. Also, half the state is not severely limited in 2017. I have attached the 2017 Farmland Antlerless Tag Information Sheet. 49 of 72 counties automatically include anywhere from 1 to 5 free antlerless tags with each license. There are 5 more partial counties that include free antlerless tags with each license as well. Of the remaining counties that are limited, you can't even classify some of them as severely limited as months after the bonus tags went on sale and have been available at a purchase rate of 1 per day per hunter for about 60 days now, some still have public land tags available and many have private land tags available.
As for your constant digs about QDM or other peoples success, I feel sorry for you. It is really pathetic that your skillset and self esteem are so low you need to constantly resort to lashing out at those who do better than you. Best of luck with your QDM course and learning how to put on your free bumper sticker. Since you think it is as simplie as just buying land and putting on a bumper sticker, you obviously have no clue.
Also, 1 SMB over 22" and 1 walleye over 28" are not catch and release lakes. Those are trophy managed lakes. There are private lands in Wisconsin and private and public lands in other state manage deer in a similar fashion using score, points, spread, etc as characteristics of mature animals. Any hunter with a pinch of salt can properly identify their target. Sorry you don't fit that mold. Instead of catch and release it is judge and pass. Similar concept to which you will never agree.
"To those who accuse land managers of "horn porn"... What it comes down to is hunting opportunity. I can shoot a yearling buck nearly every time I hunt my land with bow or gun. Why would I want to do that given the fact I love to hunt? Rather, I choose to focus on killing a mature whitetail if/when the proper opportunity presents itself. If not, I get to enjoy watching whitetails and other wildlife throughout the long seasons. Since I won't kill more than one buck per season ( and that is not a given by any means) this is my way of extending my enjoyment"
Funny, those could be my words as well but we don't think alike in any way. Most of those southern folk bragging about having success on public the same as "their" private spots are more than likely sitting on some mfl within spitting distance of a few hundred acres of beans. I really don't care to hunt private, could count on two hands the times I've sat on private with the bow in nearly 40 yrs. Haven't shot a doe with the bow in over a decade, nor a under 2 1/2 in much over a decade. Leave the northern public out of your discussion, you know nothing about it.
Most of Wis. is not doe free. Lakershiner is right too. I also hunt deer with a gun in Price co. There were a lousy 438? doe tags for Price co. this year. That is a measly little doe per 3 sq. mi. of land , and almost all of Price co. is hunt able land. I wish they would have had no does at all for one more year. I think the doe tags sold out in 1 hr or something. Pff. As for Lakeshiner wanting to go to 4 points for a second buck, I will go for that cause it is a step in the right direction. IN 1995 I shot a spike with a gun after I shot sn 8 pointer with my bow. I was just disappointed in myself . I did it just to kill something. It was a bit of greed. Wont do it again.I also think Price co. is more of a central WIs. type of hunt and north of HWY 8 is almost all woods and public. They are really different and should have a separate unit for counties like this.
Lakeshiner, also when I brought up the idea of drawing for buck tags in certain areas as a way to increase the age structure without imposing harvest restrictions on particular animals, PLH told me 'good luck with draws and special regs for a public resource in WI'. He doesn't seem to know they already exist. The map I posted was accurate to what he claimed. It showed the areas that were 'doe free'. But I get where you are coming from.
I've bear hunted Price county, it does change a lot from north to south. Shot my bear west of Phillips, but spent some time down near hyw 8 and saw a lot more deer down there.
PLH, since you wanted to bold the word 'most' and insist I go back 4 years, I did. In fact, I went back 5 years.
2017 4 of 72 Doe Free
2016 10 of 72 Doe Free
2015 13 of 72 Doe Free
2014 19 of 72 Doe Free
2013 4 of 100+ Doe Free(Under old zone system)
2012 6 of 100+ Doe Free(Under old zone system)
Not one year in there is half the state doe free. Apparently you and I have different definition of 'most'.
Lakeshiner, I know that some units that had doe tags in restricted numbers. However, I am not proposing any type of buck restrictions in those areas. Doesn't work and doesn't make sense. If PLH wants to argue with me about no doe tags in areas I don't think buck harvest should be restricted anyways as his reasoning why no changes should be made to other areas and then lie with a claim that most years half the state is doe free, I'm gonna pound him on that point. Especially considering the hypocrisy of how he likes to enjoy restrictive size limits for trophy smallmouth bass and walleye.
I don't want to take sides in this drama, but that map isn't fully accurate. Yes there may be some tags, but in much of the north the tags were very limited and most people didn't get any. Especially now that they are split public/private. Lots of people were complaining about the Go Wild random order system and how they missed out on tags. Then there are areas like where I hunt in Price County where the north has less deer and more woods and the southern part has more deer and more farmland, but the tags get lumped together. So people will be blasting does in the north where there really aren't as many. But that's another issue. We actually had no doe tags for about 8 straight years in the area we gun hunt.
"The meat hunter doesn't have plenty of options. Half the state is doe free most years".
Wow, is all I can say. I just checked the 2017 season map and 3, count them, 3 of 72 counties are doe free this year. 4 if you include Menomonee County. If you really want, I'll give you 5 counties, even though it is a small area of Eau Claire county that you would need to getther. And the 3 are in the area I propose not having iany buck restrictions. If you think 3 or 4 divided by 72 is equivalent to 1/2, I think I figured out the source of your struggles in getting a deer. Your argument lacks any semblance of logic given those facts and has a glaring lie of 'Half the state is doe free most year". Skip the QDM convention you are going to and go back to grade school and learn the basics of creating a persuasive arguement as well as math. I could get more of a challenge and more facts arguing with my 10 year old son, and thats saying something as he has a tendency to distort facts. Seriously, you just pantsed yourself with that arguement. Come on, most years? When I started n 1991, there were doe tags and hunters choice available in most areas. Only got looser from there until around 2009 when they started throttling back. Even at its most restrictive it wasn't ever that half the state was doe free, and certainly not most years. In fact, this year there are 15-20 counties with a special holiday antlerless hunt. Looking at the map I can see 2 counties where I have shot does off public land in the past and a PLH like yourself could certainly do as well, provided you have the skillset of a hunter.
See the attached map for 2017 for Wisconsin. If you are aware of another one actually published by the Wisconsin DNR that shows that half of the state is doe free this year I'd love to see it. As for you putting a QDM bumper sticker on your car, I highly doubt that you drive or even own a car. Based on your grasp of basic math concepts and knowing when I helped my kids study that type of math in recent years, I can only assume you are no older than 6 years old. If you really are an adult, I wouldn't admit it.
"The meat fisherman still has plenty of fish fry options on these water bodies"
So does the meat hunter if you enact restrictions in certain areas of central and southern farmland to increase the age structure of male deer. You can shoot rabbits, squirrels, grouse, turkeys, antlerless deer, etc. There will still be areas in which the meat hunter is completely unrestricted. You actually have better options on my scenario as you are only restricted on male deer, as opposed to all deer(or smallmouth bass, walleye, muskie, etc). And yes, it does help my argument and if you can't detect a shade of hyporisy I don't know what to say. I don't fish for trophy smallmouth or walleye. However I do realize we have some bodies of water that are ideal for those regulations and that some people want to chase trophies of those species. I also reailize that I am worse off on my desired fishing experience because of those regulations, but I am OK with that as there are other places I can go that are MANAGED for what I am looking for. While I like eating walleye on occasion, I also realize it is best for the resource and a good benefit for the trophy walleye fisherman if I toss back a 22" female instead of putting the knife to it, as I toss back every walleye over 20" I catch regardless of how my day is going and how much time I have to fish that year(I also have work, kids, etc, limiting my time). And when I go to the spring hearings each year, I quite frequently vote for regulations that are a benefit to you if they make sense. Just keep that in mind.
"Good luck with draws and special regs in Wisconsin"
We currently have draws and special regs for bear, bobcat, fisher, otter, turkey, wolf(when open), antlerless deer, and probably more that I am missing. Last I checked these were all public resources.
