Since I have about 2 months to burn being laid up and haven't been on in a while, I figured I would see how some fellow lake linkers feel on the topic of crossbows now that they have been legal in the archery season for a few years.
I'm interested in knowing WHY (big emphasis on the "WHY")….you either do or don't support having them being a part of the archery season.
As the thread progresses I figure I'll have chances to support my own thoughts on the topic.
"J-C - You may have overlooked one major factor. The DNR is tasked with managing the deer herd for many reasons. The main factor being the carrying capacity of the land. They generally feel there is too many deer, and want the population reduced. Regardless of the weapon used."
Correct. And that is why they encourage all the extra seasons, longer seasons, more technology, and maintaining predators at high levels. However the DNR's "generally feel there is too many deer" comment is why so many are quitting hunting. They are managing the herd perfectly in accordance with their management philosophy. They have managed the deer population so well in the northwoods that you can hunt the full 9 day gun season and not see a deer.
J-C - You may have overlooked one major factor. The DNR is tasked with managing the deer herd for many reasons. The main factor being the carrying capacity of the land. They generally feel there is too many deer, and want the population reduced. Regardless of the weapon used.
I don't care how people kill their deer as long as it is legal. However, something has to be done at some point. With increasing length of seasons (archery, muzzleloader) , more seasons (youth, muzzleloader, holiday hunts, t-zones), more bonus tags, predator explosions, adding muzzleloaders, adding compound bows, adding crossbows, adding scopes to muzzleloaders, etc. it comes a point where it affects everyone outside of those with large private acreage. The longer you get into the season the more deer, especially bucks, are no longer present. Ask rifle hunters how hunting is for them today compared to 20-30 years ago. Most rifle hunters don't hunt deer outside of rifle season. Success rates drop and license sales suffer along with economies (see northwoods).
In my opinion too many bucks are shot annually, and at increasing rates early in the season. You either suffer with poorer hunting late season, or you shorten seasons/limit technology/remove seasons/restrict the number of tags. If everyone wanted the convenience you could just allow rifles to be used all year and allow everyone to tag two bucks. There has to be limits, and every rule change the past 20-30 years has been designed to kill more deer, and to kill more deer easier.
I drove my truck to town the other day. I was perfectly capable of taking a bike, but I chose convenience. I could have went traditional and walked, but I wasn't into it enough for that.
That's basically how I read the complaints. I call it old-man syndrome. People know something a certain way when they are young, then as they get older it becomes the only way. Any change is bad, they will never change. Happens to most people as they get older. That's why grandma and grandpa wouldn't change their ways. They were tougher back then right? Walked up hill in the snow both ways. That's how the compound only guys sound to me.
I've never cared how I kill a deer, at the end of the day its just a deer. I like compounds, crossbows, muzzleloaders, rifles. I basically like toys. Even my son who shot one with the crossbow last year...he said he wants to try a compound next. So I'll probably shift back. Really does not matter to me.
Can tell its not hunting season and everyone is bored. Happy to always rehash and repeat the same stuff lol.
IMO I don’t think most people switch over to crossbows because it’s more ethical. I believe it’s because it’s much easier, takes less time and effort to be proficient, also greater advantage with a scope,speed,energy,and the ease of shouldering the weapon. One could only wish it was for ethics, but it’s the convenience factor.
"I hear all the talk of crossbows having an advantage. Seems to me that must equate to them being more ethical in taking down game then. As with anything if the user stays within thier own and the equipment limits I'd say crossbows are great and a far more responsible tool to harvest game with. I prefer to use equipment which will give me the best opportunity at an ethical shot and harvest."
Then we should all only use rifles.
"But that's just me... I hear guys wound and lose deer year after year with a vertical bow and then bash crossbows. I dont get that."
I hear guys losing deer every year with crossbows, usually past 40 yards.
"I wish western States would open up crossbows to all hunters. The more people we add to the sport the better!"
Looking at the numbers, gun hunters are not switching to crossbows only. What has happened are many/most vertical archers have just switched over to crossbows because they are more lethal. More and more bucks are being killed before rifle season because they are much easier to use and success rates are much higher. Rifle hunters have been completely quitting deer hunting, and will accelerate quitting hunting as rifle hunting buck success rates drop. This does not add more people to the sport. The only proven thing to increase participation is to increase success rates. When gun hunters start feeling that "all the bucks" have been already shot why would they go buck hunting?
I feel we simply kill too many bucks in WI - a one buck rule would help negate some of that. Guys with a bow/crossbow in hand may pass up more bucks if it means shooting that fork in front of you in October means you can't hunt for bucks with a rifle later in the season. Maybe someone else gets a shot at that fork and is happy, or by luck it makes it to next season.
I hear all the talk of crossbows having an advantage. Seems to me that must equate to them being more ethical in taking down game then. As with anything if the user stays within thier own and the equipment limits I'd say crossbows are great and a far more responsible tool to harvest game with. I prefer to use equipment which will give me the best opportunity at an ethical shot and harvest. But that's just me... I hear guys wound and lose deer year after year with a vertical bow and then bash crossbows. I dont get that. I wish western States would open up crossbows to all hunters. The more people we add to the sport the better!
Well said JC. I am 100% pro cross bow for the many people who have shoulder etc issues! The thing that has caused my biggest concern today is the irresponsible marketing by the manufactures. Seen it...again, first hand this year. A few guys who are in and out of the camp I hunt are healthy, strong 30, 40ish year olds that talk up the Ravin 100 yard capability and really flaunt it. One guy took an 80 yard shot this year and gut shot the buck. He immediately wanted to go after it because the "speed" of the arrow (not energy). After a rather heated discussion, he agreed to wait until morning. Fortunately there was some snow, and after a LONG track job, we did find it...so did the yotes. He was reluctant to tag it, but, again, another heated conversation ensued and he did. This is just one example of several ridiculous/unethical situations I've seen...mostly due to commercials and ads pushing the "100 yard groups". Sorry for the long post, but that type of crap REALLY bothers me. I have a real sincere respect for the animals we all love to pursue.
OK, I'll bite. I don't like crossbows for young healthy people, but they are here. This can all easily be fixed with a one buck/year rule, and use any weapon you like. There will be less crying from all involved. It is not arguable that crossbows have huge advantages which can simply be seen by harvest numbers. I do believe rule changes will be needed (one buck per year rule is the easiest) to stop gun hunters from quitting at accelerating rates.
However, the below is frankly ridiculous, and I am forced to respond below:
"I have a buddy who can hold his compound bow almost indefinitely because of the 85% let off. My xbow weighs in at 15 lbs. With 2 bad shoulders It can be held up for a mere couple seconds at most. "
You can't use a rest with a vertical bow. A lot of guys use rests, and you can hold the xbow all day. There are crossbows on the market half the weight of yours. Also, the simple fact movement is required before the shot is a detriment to vertical bows. Deer don't see you draw a crossbow unless you are doing it wrong.
"My buddy squeezes his trigger on his compound, just like most xbows do. By buddies scope puts to shame what is available for a xbow."
My friend has a Ravin. It is perfectly set up with yardage markers at different distances and is an incredible scope. No need to site it in at different yardages as it is made for the bow and bolt.
"His arrows fly at 400fps, my crossbow bolts almost fly that fast. And his fly quit a bit farther being heavier and hit harder."
Unless your buddy is pulling 90 lbs, shooting a bow with aggressive cams, and shooting light arrows (above you say they are heavier) and heads there is no way his arrows are flying anywhere near 400fps. Most people can't get to 300fps with even a 70 lb bow with hunting arrows and heads...real hunting setups. Shoot your xbow and his bow through a chrono and you will see.
"So. I challenge anyone to try in vain to explain how xbows have an advantage and lower game numbers."
My buddy's 8 year old girl tried and shot his Ravin for the first time this year at 20 yards. Pattern of 4 inches at 20 yards with every shot. Really no more to say, and you should be able to figure out why crossbows are a huge advantage.
I don't care if people want to complain, that's their right. Hunting is full of big egos and arrogant people, have to look past that fluff. If you look at the numbers, you don't have to act scared...you aren't alone.
I was actually pretty happy to see a bunch of posts in a row that didn't start with an excuse. People act like they are embarassed, it was almost as bad as the people who make excuses about the bucks they shoot. Its literally been years now, time to get over it.
The Wisconsin Bowhunters Associations main focus in their ongoing anti crossbow campaign, is, crossbows shooting deer at 100 yards, and crossbow hunters have a extremely higher success rate compared to firearms or compound bows. Leading to most of the Bucks are shot before the firearm hunters have a chance to shoot. That last strategy is to get more gun hunters upset and join their cause. As a stand alone organization, they have lost creditability along with their membership numbers.
As Usual, their anti crossbow claims are bogus and filled with twisted information to suit their cause.
am sick of the cry babies who cry loudly about xbows. I have a buddy who can hold his compound bow almost indefinitely because of the 85% let off. My xbow weighs in at 15 lbs. With 2 bad shoulders It can be held up for a mere couple seconds at most. My buddy squeezes his trigger on his compound, just like most xbows do. By buddies scope puts to shame what is available for a xbow. His arrows fly at 400fps, my crossbow bolts almost fly that fast. And his fly quit a bit farther being heavier and hit harder. Plus we're both allowed to only take the legal limit as determined by law. So. I challenge anyone to try in vain to explain how xbows have an advantage and lower game numbers.
