Aggressive Dogs, Dogs that bite

Some of you may have seen that I started a thread on German Shepherds. That thread generated a private message to me that I am copying here (with permission). It's a subject not just for German Shepherds, but any and all dogs.... Docknboatlift-Maybe you can help me. Throughout the years I have been around dogs I have been bit a number of times but thankfully nothing really serious. On almost every occasion the dogs that bit me were German Shepherds. On the few other times they were larger dogs. Is there something that I am doing that you can suggest to prevent this from happening? I'm referring to body language, demeanor, eye contact or any other suggestions you might have when I am nearing thses dogs. I always thought it has to be something I'm doing, (or not doing) that is causing this. I would add that in virtually every case the owners have been shocked and surprised that " they have never done that before" gets repeated. Any suggestions? I guess I would boil down the original question to "how do you approach a strange dog." The last aggressive dog I personally dealt with was a Golden Retriever who had suffered his complete fill of small children agitating him. Obviously at my age, I didn't have a problem with him, but the reaction was very real and came as a complete surprise to all who thought they knew the dog. He was aggressive to small children and would bite them if he could get a free shot in at one. That said, the one and only actual mauling I have been the victim of was a German Shepherd-over 35 years ago. In this case it was an actual retired guard dog that a family had rescued. I became the victim when one of the family members let me into the house without securing the dog. Suddenly I was alone with him. It was a very short fight. And yes, I lost. However, the dog had been trained to do exactly as it did, as opposed to a surprise chomp by a typical family pet. I have come close to being chomped on more than one occasion by pit bulls. So what's the Lake-Linksters crowd have to say on the subject? I take the subject very seriously due to the dogs I own. So there seems to be a few issues/questions to address. One is how NOT to get bit, and the second would be how to assure YOUR dog will not bite, and a third is dog breeds that are inclined to bite without warning.

I dunno...I have 3 Rottweilers mixed with Blutick Coon Hounds and they dont bite. real behaved, have 1 shepard mixed with a chesapeeke. great hunters , and no biters.

Interesting thread. I had three pretty bad run-ins with aggressive dogs in my youth. The first was a terrier of some sort, that took a nice bite out of my calf as I was running away from him. I was only a very small child, and did not know to not run away. Second was a German Shepherd that attacked me without provocation as I was walking home from work as a teenager. My recollection of the event is a bit dim (this was like 35 years ago) but I somehow escaped unscathed. Third was a junkyard mutt that charged out of a junked car in the yard of an excavation contractor I worked for. The dog ripped the shirt off my back and tore my pants leg open. My disabled boss (the excavation contractor) was shouting "GET A PIPE AND KILL THAT SOB". So, I went to the junkpile, selected a suitable length of pipe, and smashed the dog's brains out with one swing. Turns out it was a female with a litter of flea-bitten puppies in the junked car. We called the humane society for the pups. I felt bad about this but what if it was a child being attacked instead of me? I did absolutely nothing to provoke the dog. I was afraid of dogs most of my life because of these things. Then, at 32, I got a female German Shorthair Pointer that was the joy of my life for 13 years, 13 days until succumbing to a bout of pancreatitis. She was the sweetest dog you could even want to own, and never bit anybody that I am aware of. She did hate a couple of my "acquaintances", which I took as a supremely excellent judge of character. Back to the thread; I would have NEVER suspected that St. Bernards would be biters. I always thought they were nice big doggies.

I have mixed feelings about dog aggression. As my handle implies, I am a sucker for strays. Many times, these dogs are undersocialized, abused and neglected. Right now I have two. One is protective, and won't bite. The other, the beagle, simply cannot be trusted with my daughter. Lots of training with both dogs, but personality disorders with dogs are just like people, you can manage the symptoms but deep down they are the same dog they came to be when they were pups. I had a very protective and aggressive dog taken from the street when we lived in Milwaukee. That dog saved my wife a lot of grief as she jogged and walked through tougher neighborhoods or in the evening. The dog also cost me some cash after an incident at the dog park. Lesson learned. Interestingly, the postman somehow won that pooch over with confidence, biscuits and more biscuits. She would not even raise her head as he opened the gate. She just thumped her tail a few times. Conditioning is everything for canines. Each situation is different. In different circumstances, some of my dogs would need to be put down. In the circumstances that happened, however, I was able to manage the risk and control the behavior of dogs with an aggressive nature.

I agree with uplandnut. No patience for owners that don't take the time to train a dog to be civil. So tired of hearing a dog left in a vehicle at a hunt club barking it's fool head off. I think it just boils down to ignorance by the owner not to have trained it properly while it was a pup, but I don't know how they can tolerate it........

Alright I'll play devils advocate here, and ask why people who have a dog that bites don't fix the problem?? I'm not talking about the dog that just stands his ground and acts tough, "all bark no bite". If you go to most dog trainers they will tell you that there is a flaw in the training but noone wants to hear that. I currently have four large dogs and they all act tough when you come to the door or show up at "their" property, but when I greet the person or go up to talk to them they back off and show submission. Biting is a reaction to many different things and if you know you have a biting problem of any kind don't you think it's your responsibility to the public to make that dog "bombproof" to everything? I realize this idea may not be a popular thought, (that the dog owner may be responsible) but at some point maybe we need to look at the way WE handle these situations. I know one person who use to train guard dogs and those dogs were as level headed as could be until you said the magic word. I have another friend that has issues with his dog having a pretty severe case of dog aggression, boat landings are an interesting experience when it's duck season and there are other dogs around. I'm sorry if my take on the situation is unpopular and wrong in many peoples opinions but think of how much time we spend training our dogs to hunt ducks or upland birds, or how much we spend it professional trainers to do it for us. When was the last time you took your dog to a trainer to learn how to handle your dog in situations where we meet new people or where there are little kids around. Well now I'm done with playing devils advocate. I hope I have not offended anyone, but if I have I apologize. Heres hoping everyone has the best dogs in the world, and many more successful seasons hunting ahead of them.

Never put your face in a dogs face until you met the dog a few different times. Even if it seems friendly for a few hours. If a dog is on a leash have the owner put some slack in it so the dog doesn't feel cornered. When you put your hand out for it to sniff keep the dog at a distance (a foot or two is what i like) just in case it gets threatening you have A chance to protect your self. If you get lower to the dogs level keep a solid base to protect your self.

Lots of great advice here IMO. Ask visitors to completely ignore the dog - as if he wasn't even there. Let the dog come to them on his own terms once their "strangeness" isn't so threatening to him. I try to be "alpha" with all dogs whether I know them or not. A deep voice helps but so does looking them square in the eye and not being hesitant around them. All animals can sense your fear of them - even when you think you're not afraid you still send off signals they can read. Showing fear or meekness is not the way to win over an alpha dog.

Love dogs but hate a mean one. I have a fixed male that is food agressive.When he has food, its his and dont try to take it.I have the same reaction when someone takes food from me. I feed him away from other pets.He greets people like he is agressive but is just a baby when he charges up to you.When a dog shows agression stand your ground.I had to gut kick a farm dog once to keep him off me.I think the only cure for a MEAN dog is to dock his tail off right behind his ears.This might be a post for any postalworkers, as they sure see enough sassy ones.

Another thing not to do when meeting a new dog is to immediately try petting the top of its head. Again, the dog may interpret that move as you trying to exert dominance over him. As dock mentioned, after you let a pup smell the back of your hand, pet the side of the muzzle first.

Here are some things NOT to do when greeting a strange dog.

1) Regardless of size, do not try to roll a dog onto it's back.

2) Regardless of size, do not blow into the nose of a strange dog, ever.

3) Regardless of size, do not attempt to "pin" a dog to the ground with your hand or foot. This means exercising extreme care if you are trying to pet a strange dog that is laying on its side.

4) Regardless of size, do not turn your back or run from a strange dog.

All of these things are dominance issues in the doggie world. Doing numbers 1, 2, or 3 mean you are trying to exert dominance over a dog, and if the dog is ready to contest the issue you will have an instant and surprise fight on your hands.

Number four is showing that you are sub-dominant to the dog and the dog may well elect to drive home the point by attacking.

HCW, The only way I know to deal with your situation is a kennel/fence, or muzzle, or placing the dog somewhere else. The muzzle is the least effective. The reality is you do have a substantial liability. As far as what's causing it, it sounds like your dog has assumed Alpha status over (in his mind) a small pack. It might help to get him neutered if he isn't already, but that doesn't always change behavior. From what I can read into your explanation, it sounds like the dog is generally unsupervised in the back yard and free to roam, which in the doggie world means you've given up YOUR status as the Alpha when he's out there. Four dog attacks including one with a substantial injury is not a story you want to explain to a judge after attack five.

your way of greeting sounds right on the spot dock. I also would not put down a dog yet. I think just a little work with him. Dogs are territorial by nature. My shorthair growls at every dog that walks by. But if i let him out he does the normal dog greet and then wants to play. I take him to the dog park in town nearly everyday. There is alot of dogs there of all shapes and sizes and he is great with all of them. I also don't have a problem with him if someone stops by. He does jump on them and some don't like it but that is my fault. personally I don't mind a dog that jumps to me, If I know him. Im just as happy to see them as they are to see me.

this is funny i just had another encounter with my GWP,, he is a big baby most of the time but yet territorial and has nipped people before mostly brand new people that have come into the house that he doesnt know,, albeit just this last weekend i had a good friend over that has met him before and played with him etc before, he came in i gave him a treat to give the dogs and it was fine, my buddy was standing and talking and the dog was by his side he went to walk away to the other room and he just went after the back of his leg making a nice scratch and bruise,,,,needless to say i was upset so i let um have it and made sure he knew that was a very bad move, so i dont really know what prompted it or what to do about it,its like he will nip you quick and then be on your lap lickin ya all night, some dogs are strange and i cant figure it out, so next time my buddy is over we are going to do some small training sessions and see what happens with different approaches.......

HCW, I know this isn't going to be a popular thing to say but you either need to get control of your dog's territorial issues right now, keep him in a cage, or put him down. There is no excuse for having an aggresive dog like that and the fact that it has already attacked two dogs shows a pattern of aggresivness. God forbid he ever attack a human or a kid because you will be in quite a bit of trouble considering you knew how aggresive it was.

Dock, I go through nearly the identical steps you mention when meeting new dogs. I usually even squat down to get closer to their level, as I'm 6'2" so I try to get down closer to their level so they don't feel threatened. That has always been my approach when meeting a controlled dog (ie leashed). There have been a few situations where I have been approached by a loose dog with no owner in sight. I typically take a different approach with those dogs, being slightly more firm in my tone and actions. The example that comes to mind is when I had a very large rotweiler with no collar trotting towards me in the parking lot of my apartment building in college. I wasn't about to squat down and hold out the back of my hand when I had no idea what his intentions were. Instead, in a firm but calm voice I addressed the dog to let him know I saw him, but I also made it clear I didn't like him trotting up on me. I eventually gave him a firm whoa and sit command. To my surprise his trot stopped and his but hit the ground. I then followed the same approach as previously mentioned. He also waited patiently as I went and got him some water. Interestingly enough, I've been in 3 hairy situations with 3 different dogs in my life. Once cornered by a growling/snarling dog, once pinned down, and once bitten. All 3 dogs were German shepherds! All three situations happened when I was a kid. I don't fear the dogs or think ill of the breed, but I typically don't go out of my way to meet them either.