FFS

So, I’m seeing reports of someone catching 29 Muskies and other reports of 10+ on the Fox River before daylight on opening day.  Just curious on people’s opinions on this.

Here’s mine:

A:  I feel that it is unethical harassment of fish that would otherwise not be caught.  I’ve not heard of someone catching that many fish in that short of time.

B:  I assure you fish are being snagged.

Attached is one tournament bass angler's current position on FFS, which he says has changed over the years as he's seen the impact.   A tournament bass angler's view on FFS 

For me personally, I don't like seeing it used for the larger predator fish.  Today, it is not uncommon to see guide boats just driving around the lake looking for a musky or a large walleye cruising the basin and then having their clients drops soft plastics on top of it trying to get it to bite (aka..."sharp shooting").  One evening a year ago, my son and I came back to the boat launch after having decent luck musky fishing.  There was a guide boat out on the lake with us, driving around in the dark with 3 clients in the boat.  They showed up to the landing just after we did, so I asked one of the clients how it went.  "3 fish caught tonight, the guide caught a 41" and we caught two 35"s."  How did he go about fishing with you guys?, I asked.  "He just drove around with live scope in the water looking for a fish to target.  Then he handed us a rod with a large soft plastic on it, and we dropped it down in front of the fish to see if it would bite it.  After a couple of minutes, if it didn't bite, he'd go look for another one."  And you guys paid $500+ to fish muskies like that, I asked?  The client seemed kind of embarrassed.  IMHO, that is lazy and totally disrespectful to the sport.  My view comes from the era I grew up when I learned where and how fish would stage without having electronics in the beginning....and improved to the point my average northern WI musky was 42+" and a fish on average every 3-4 hours (150-200 casts).  I can work that hard for a fish.  Plus, I like the element of surprise....the surprise that makes your knees quiver when you hook up with a good one or miss a big one.  The surprising thing to me was prior to "live scope", many wouldn't even try the methods that I was successful catching fish with for 3+ decades, because they couldn't wrap their head around fishing the abyss.  Now, when you can drive right up and locate them precisely, it's all ok (they became "open water experts" now)....kind of like shooting fish in a barrel.

Update:  I have noticed the impact on the fisheries that I frequent.  Fish just don't get a break in places they could go for refuge in the past where 99% of the anglers would not target them.  One knucklehead up north even has the audacity to cut the top lip extension off every musky that he catches out on the basin, to permanently "mark" the fish he's caught.  Totally disfigures the fish. 

So how long until FFS destroys the fisheries then? Because it's already been around for over a decade and I haven't noticed any difference in the fisheries I fish. I guess I'll just keep waiting.

Ya'll just like to complain. Get over the FFS, it's not going anywhere and like it or not, it's keeping the younger kids engaged in a dying sport. My kid has been ice fishing without my help using livecope since he has been 5 years old. Besides a tablet, what else is going to keep a 5 year old engaged for 2 straight hours in the cold? Nothing. And I contribute his love for the sport 100% to that. 

FFS has helped the fishing community more than it has hurt the fisheries. 

Tournaments are dumb to begin with, ban them in tournaments if it makes people happy.

Yeah I don't think there's any ways Fisheries can sustain today is electronics. They may not be wiped out but Lakes will see a definite decline. The argument of if it's legal it's okay , always bothers me. No respect for the resource. The guys that argue that are probably the ones that find fishing equipment at the Landing, throw it in their truck and drive home. It's not stealing they would say🤣🤣

Biggest question is will the fisheries sustain it.  More fish caught means more handled and more dying.

G5,
I agree, good guides used to understand cold blooded biology, fish movement and patterns.  It’s just driving around now.  Similar to shining deer.

And no, it’s not illegal but have we crossed an ethical boundary?  Probably so.

So here's my take on FFS. I've been Musky fishing for probably 40 years and in the beginning just wanted to catch fish. Used to fish the dams on the Wisconsin River and certain current breaks always held fish. You knew they were there it's just whether or not they were going to bite. So it was well if he's there I should catch him. Also fished Lakes up north, would spend a lot of time with the old fashioned Electronics finding Rock piles or cribs lining them up with the birch tree and the white Boathouse. They were pretty good spots cuz nobody knew about them. Nowadays Side Imaging, you can find those spots easily. The younger guys are really good with their electronics and want to catch fish. Most of the muskies they're catching are fish I'm not targeting I like to catch them on bucktails and top water my days of ripping rubber are behind me . So in that respect I guess I'm okay with it. I also understand a lot of these guys are YouTubers and guides and are making a living doing what they love. That's everybody's dream. It definitely makes fishing easier and I feel like they" didn't have to pay their dues". I would not be upset one bit if it was banned. There's something about Muskie fishing where the random reward is part of the game....... Edit. This is my feeling of the ethics of livescope. As far as damaging Fisheries I think it's horrible .

I saw the posts, no clue if they had live sonar, won't comment on that. 
Will say this....I stay away from the Fox and the Zoo that it has become on the musky opener.  I love muskies and that is not even fun.

I saw 9 muskies on my one trip for muskies this year on Green Bay, in about two hours.  I did not use livescope.  I could have snagged every one of them in the mouth and/or face.  They were post spawn and just sitting in shallow sand recovering.  I put bucktails in front of their face hoping for reaction strikes.  I dropped tubes in front of them and hopped them around those fish.  Nothing.  They hardly moved.  Seemed wrong to me to bring a tube around their face and just set the hook.  But that is ethics while fishing.  

About live sonar?  I have it.  I'd happily turn it into an anchor if the State banned it.  For me, it's added confidence in my spots and technique, for all species.  And when I use it, I use it more to "scout" a spot, as opposed to see fish, cast to fish.  Can say when I don't want to cast, it is fun to set that thing up and shoot areas and tell my wife where to cast.  But when I do that, when I see fish (bass/walleyes), I note where they are and turn the scope 180 degrees away from them while my wife casts into the spot.  

Back before the WDNR created a fish refuge on the "southern" Fox river below the Barstow dam, I had seen many fish with any number of artificial baits in their mouths, swimming around generally about 1/2 mile downstream. Some had big crankbaits in their mouths that appeared to prevent them from feeding.

I'd see them by shining the water downstream at night looking for schools of emerald shiners. Those days are done too.

At least the guys with a high count of opening day 'skis are (obviously?) using tackle more suited for actually landing big fish instead using lighter tackle in an attempt to convince the warden you're "fishing for white bass".

That's the grey area.  People are undoubtedly snagging fish.  Snagging fish by accident (wink, wink) is not illegal as long as fish are released.  But people who know, know.  It's all about the pics and social media these days.

Anyway this isn't a is it legal or illegal question.  It's a right or wrong question and we as sportsman can fight to get it changed.  Banning FFS is really starting to gain traction across the country and Canada.  It's only right that we protect our fisheries as well, especially with the minimal stocking efforts we're facing.  

My only opinion is, …, Did they break any laws? Are they lying about 29 muskies? We don’t know. I actually know nothing about the 2 fishermen. My only concern would be are they breaking the law, but I have no idea if they are or not. If they’re fishing within the regulations, let them fish and tell fishing stories.