2021 Deer season

Edit: I meant to say Gun deer season.

I will be in Shawano county. Weather looks really nice. Very excited as usual. I loves me some opening days.

Anyone hunting MN opener? It's gonna be 60*, glad I didn't plan on it. 

I guess I'm the oddball because I think things are fine.  Year to year the people I know who shoot deer...shoot deer.  Year to year the people I know who don't shoot deer...don't shoot deer.   Some guys are picky, some aren't, but the shift has been to guys being more picky for archery at least.  I'm one of those who got pickier for archery and I'd say I have seen buck size improve in the past 5 years or so.  Not shooting giants but I see more 2.5 and 3.5 year olds than before.

"I believe still the vast majority of hunters want to just get a deer."

I concur that is true for the majority of rifle hunters, but most bow hunters are more serious and tend to be MUCH pickier.  3/4 of the bowhunters I know that hunt public land try to hold out for at least a 2.5 year old 8 pointer, and only a few of these hunters would shoot a 1.5 year old buck shortly before rifle season to fill their buck tag.  Most of them will try to shoot a doe instead.  For even the average Joe, a good percentage of them wouldn't shoot a 1.5 year old just to get meat if they knew they wouldn't have a buck tag come rifle season.  I believe it would make a substantial impact....at least in this part of the state.  A lot of serious hunters here, and a fairly good percentage of these guys shoot at least 2 bucks every year through gun and bow, or gun party tagging.

On the party tagging thing with the last post - I agree.  I still don't understand why it is legal with gun hunting, but not for bowhunting.  I don't think it should be legal at all.  Would be tough to enforce for crews on drives, but some people might actually follow the law if changed   

Another thing to consider if 1 buck were the rule is that it just may not have the desired effect due to the group hunting law during gun.  I’ve filled both my buck tags 2 or 3 times in my life so from that standpoint it shouldn’t be a big deal to me.  However without even the opportunity to go buck hunting with the gun, I’d consider that a big downside personally.  Considering further, since we have 2 other guys that rifle hunt I would likely still be able to shoot a big one if the opportunity arose through agreement with the others in the group since we almost never fill all gun buck tags.  For me the biggest impact would be not being able to hunt muzzloader since I do that alone.

Just end all the doe only hunts in the southern part of the state where I live so I could continue to try and fill my bow buck tag and I'd be happy. With my work schedule and all these extended hunts I may have 1 more opportunity if I'm lucky

However, and what is unknown, how many of the hundreds of thousands of bow/crossbow hunters would have passed a small buck during archery season if they knew they would no longer be able to harvest a buck during rifle season?

It’s probably not as many as you think. I believe still the vast majority of hunters want to just get a deer. Shoot a trophy, awesome....shoot a fork, still awesome. For the hunters shifting effort from gun to strings , the calculation is that there is probably a better chance for that to happen outside of a nine day gun season when it is not as cold and the chances of competing with other hunters is much less. Especially if they are relegated to doing so on public lands. It’s the bird in the hand if you will.   I’d put myself in that group. I usually have a bow tag filled by early November on public lands in northern Wisconsin with not much time put in. I have literally two spots I go to where I’ve never seen other bow hunters. I could never gun hunt them however, as they are heavily utilized by gun hunters (adjacent private land guys mostly). I still gun hunt (sawyer county public) and won’t ever give it up, but I make my hay beforehand. I’m sure my story is not unlike many others. 

"less than 6% of hunters registered 2 bucks a year for the four years they examined"

Completely understood, however 6% is not that insignificant.  However, and what is unknown, how many of the hundreds of thousands of bow/crossbow hunters would have passed a small buck during archery season if they knew they would no longer be able to harvest a buck during rifle season?  That number would likely be much greater than 6%, and they probably would wait for a larger buck during archery season that may never show up.  It would also help alleviate some crowding on many public land areas of the state potentially.

Doesn't matter...WDNR wants the deer killed and any change to improve the deer herd and hunter success rates will likely never come to fruition.  We, or the predators, have to kill the deer before CWD does.

Yes way too many doe tags being issued in northern Wisconsin.  There is no need for it. It's just for the dnr to make more money . I love hunting vilas county but we hunt in the U.P and see way more deer there then where we hunt in vilas county. They dont slaughter the does there. We always have nice bucks on cam in the U.P and usually get 2 or 3 bucks. This year we got a nice 9 and my son shot his first buck a 4 pointer. We are talking about just doing Wisconsin opening weekend and just focus on the U.P more . Sad but our group of guys are getting older and not seeing deer so getting less and less each year on coming.

Hunting is a dying sport. Might as well accept it. There's really no good reason to do it other than it's a lot of fun. 

JC is spot on with his comment that just looking at the number of "second" bucks killed by hunters is not the overriding consideration.  More importantly,  it changes harvest considerations and would have a huge effect on the numbers of and distribution of hunters during archery and particularly gun season.

I'd love to see a one buck limit but fear our wonderful DNR will never be progressive enough to implement such a practical change.

I wish they would expound upon the weapon use report they issued in 2018 to include the subsequent years until now.  But, what it did show was less than 6% of hunters registered 2 bucks a year for the four years they examined. This issue has been beat to death on LL but in the end it only amounted to something like one buck per six square miles “not available to gun hunter,” so not really significant. Many more are road killed in a typical year rendering them also not available to gun hunters. As crossbow use increased, gun hunting success rates also increased every year (14-17). Probably has more to do with population trends than anything. It would be interesting if they updated the weapon use stats every year, I’d bet we would indeed see an effort shift from gun to archery (more so x bows), especially amongst older hunters (50+) and people without access to quality private land opportunities, which are becoming more difficult to come by every year. I know I much prefer having entire sections of public land to myself in October vs competing with the orange army in late November.

"it has not been shown that the additional use of crossbows has overall increased the total buck kill substantially. "

You are correct, not much difference in total buck kill.  However, as one would suspect, buck kill success rate drops during rifle season when the buck is killed during bow season.  Success rate helps drive hunter numbers, and my prediction is that more gun hunters will give up deer hunting rather than grab a bow/crossbow resulting in much less license revenue.  For the most part this is already proving true.  

Guys shooting two bucks...sure, not a high percentage but also not statistically insignificant.  However, a one buck rule would make bowhunters think twice about shooting a small buck knowing rifle season is just around the corner.  Many would rather not fill a buck tag with a forkhorn during bow season if it results in them not being able to go rifle hunting.  You can't just look at the percentage of people who shoot two bucks, you have to think about what else happens as a result of such a rule change.  Buck success rates for rifle hunting would increase.

Party tagging really is another issue in and of itself.  How many hunters shoot 2, 3 or more bucks during rifle season and have someone else in their crew legally tag it?

Always lots of points and arguing when it comes to deer hunting! Go to one buck tag and targeted doe tags where needed. Lets go back to the backtag and on site registration. Its so easy to poach a deer with the tags the way they are. I know its convenient and we really don't know how many deer are poached but I still feel its happening. I know there are many crossbow haters on here. However, what would you rather have- A poor vertical bow shot that wounds three bucks or one dead with the crossbow? I have to laugh when people cry they didn't see anything, then they say they took a doe for meat. Duh!

I will take my muzzleloader any day of the week over a crossbow.  Secondly it has not been shown that the additional use of crossbows has overall increased the total buck kill substantially.  Guys are going to crossbows from regular archery, but the number of hunters and kills isn't skyrocketing up. And I don't have the number right now, but the percentage of people who tag two bucks a year is pretty low, like around 15% I thought. Again they arent the problem.  If gun hunters want better success, then they can adapt too. Take your weekend gun hunt, move it up 2 weeks, get one of those automatic killer crossbows and hunt the rut then and be part of the success some think everyone has during this magic time.

"Honestly, JcWisconsin,  there is no doubt the gun season in many ways does start earlier.  When you have a pile of corn laying there like you do , how much different is there between a pile of corn and a crossbow at 25 yds and a rifle at 25yds when the buck puts it's head down behind the log that was put right in front of the bait so it cant see you when its eating.?  Totally legal to hunt all through the rut with the crossbow and a  scope on it to boot. It is much more a gun than a bow. And your comment about " totally wiping them out" shows you are defensive . Only reason to be like that is when the other guy is right.  In other words, if you use a crossbow you are all  but gun hunting during the rut anyway, just using a crossbow  instead. Ask any crossbow shooter, they are far superior to regular bows. My uncle and cousin brag they can shoot a baseball at 25yds. and  say " it's just like shooting a gun. Put the crosshairs and and "thoop" , the deer is dead real fast. most even use  a rest for their crossbows. The day will come when I just get a crossbow, run my bait pile all through October and by the full rut I will be there with my crossbow and established bait pile 2 weeks before gun season. I will use that in place of gun season for Wisconsin and go somewhere else to hunt.  Also JC  , A little quote for you   " When the debate is lost , slander becomes the tool of the looser. "  This is why you implied that I want to " wipe then all out"."

First off, I didn't bait this year.  Now banned in every county I hunt.  Although bans have proven not to stop, or even slow the spread of CWD, I abided by the law even though I don't agree with it.  Bait bans only result in making public land even harder to hunt.  Food plots (and illegal baiting) on private land become even better when public land is nearby.

Secondly, I am not a fan of the crossbow whatsoever.  But to compare it to a rifle is ludicrous.  If a deer is standing at 25 yards...sure....not much difference.  I can do that with my recurve.  A crossbow could better be compared to a muzzleloader, but in no way does it equal a rifle.  The crossbow is greatly affecting rifle season.  Unless hunters move to crossbows (and it is proven they haven't in high numbers - most crossbow licenses were former vertical bow hunters), it will only accelerate the negativity of rifle hunters and result in escalating decreases in license sales due to lower success rates.

Thirdly, "lost the debate" I am confused about.  If there are a lack of deer in the northwoods, especially public land, how can you debate even more deer will be killed during the rut if you put a rifle in hunters' hands?  WI has been praised by having a later rifle season for a reason.  A good idea to bring deer numbers back is to use rifles during the peak of the rut?

The obvious fix would be to stop issuing bonus antlerless tags, control predators, and just sell a single buck tag you can use with any weapon during the legal season for that weapon.  The addition of crossbows have accelerated the decline of available bucks during rifle season.  If a crossbow or vertical bow hunter shoots that forkhorn during early season, they are done for the year with a one buck rule (like MN does).  More bucks would be passed, and would somewhat increase the overall buck success rate of all hunters on an annual basis.  Set the price of the buck tag at a level to ensure no loss of revenue, and only offer antlerless tags where truly needed.

I think the DNr REALLY needs to manage the northern deer herd differently than the deer herd south of HWY 8 or 64.  

Start off by banning baiting during the month of November.  The wolves love corn piles just like lazy hunters do!