TailsNeyes , you must have the wrong person. I have never seen a mountain lion. There was however a cougar in Price co. and the DNR recognised it as a cougar . There is a guy that had a very similar name as mine here, but like most poster here, they are gone now. If you are doubting me, or thinking I am stretching the story about how little there is in NW, and likely NE Wisconsin, like I said to Ol Sarge, you wont believe how desolate and void of animals it really is. Many wont likely believe me , but when the wolves showed up for an extended period of time, even the red squirrel numbers were way down. The grouse seem to not be bothered by the wolf numbers, however, I am sure there would be more grouse if not for wolves. However, in the long run, I think the deer numbers will go up a bit . The reason is, in 20 yrs or so there will be so many white oak trees putting out acorns that there will be more food to eat. The woods and trees are healthier. You can still see many maples that have trunks that grew very crooked from being nipped down to nothing every year, but the last 10 yrs or so the trees are not being browsed nearly as bad. As for my comment about white pines being eaten, many have not seen that . In Price and Sawyer co. you could not find a White pine that was not 50 yrs old. You cant find a Hemlock, a cedar that is not at least 75 yrs. old. The White oaks are very old, but now I see thousands of young ones popping up . The reason is there is no regeneration of oaks, cedars, Hemlocks and pines , and even flat needled spruce is cause there were too many deer in the woods for way too long. The DNR didnt allow many does to be shot and old timers refused to shoot a doe, and there were very few wolves and a lot less bears. As for coyotes, there seem to be less . Wolves will track a coyote down and kill it just because, and no doubt will eat them. I am sure the DNR had it right , although they were right mostly by accident when they handed out doe tags like candy . If we would not have shot those does ( and our party only shot 5 in 30 yrs) the wolves, bears and hard winters would have killed them anyway. I am going back up to my cabin next week. I will bow hunt but my chances of seeing a deer are so slim, I stand about a 10% chance of seeing a deer per 2 hour sit.
(called them brush wolves).
Term is referring to coyotes I believe. At least that is what the people I knew "up nort" called them. As compared to timber wolves.
Ihookum is that the same as your cougar sighting a few years ago.?????
Ol Sarge. I am not being sarcastic in any way. However, you need to go to the Flambeau River State Forest. You will see a huge chink of land that literally has almost no deer in it. I bought my land in 1989. I was 25 yrs old. The hunting was never "" really good"'" , but we did go bow hunting and saw deer most weekends , and we all saw a few deer in the gun season, except in 1992. It is a shame what the wolves did to the deer numbers. You can, and I ain't kidding, can walk all weekend and not kick up a deer . I can walk , without stretching the story, walk across a 40 and not see a track after 4 days of snow on the ground. Last year , the day before gun season, I walked across my proprty, crossed the river and walked another . That was just under a 1/2 mile walk . It snowed Tuesday and it was Friday afternoon. I crossed 1 coyote, 1 bobcat, 1 wolf, 2 different bear tacks and 1 deer track. IN 1/2 mile. You have to see it to believe it. It is what I call a ecological desert. I check trail cams and all summer long there might be a few does , and might even have a fawn with them but most all the fawns are gone by fall. I do always see a few nice bucks on the cams but always from Oct. 25 to Nov. 15. After that I just dont know where they go. You would not believe it till you see it. There are deer trails that dont even get used anymore and can hardly even tell they are there. I never would have believed it. On a brighter note, I have seen this area go from bad deer habitat from over browsed for many years to a healthier forest . White oak are popping up all over and some will get above the deer browse line. I have seen whit Pines getting tall enough to not get eaten to the ground. However, I see Hemlocks coming up in the fall but they are always gone by spring. The woods is healthier and some day , likely not even in my life the northwoods will have a healthier deer woods. Price co . is logging like crazy and is helping a little bit. The hard winters seem harder on the deer than the wolves , however.
I'm in the woods... Not lakeshores or roadsides...
Times have certainly changed. We can only manage what cards we are dealt.
I sit on the Adams County CDAC. Our primary problem is not wolves, but hunter access to deer. The number of hunters is also decreasing. Most of our public pulp land open to hunting has been sold off and turned to corn.
Our wolf population is primarily based in one area of our county. Having a wolf hunt of any size would not impact the deer herd.
I suspect, but cannot verify, there is more deer predation to coyotes taking fawns than wolves targeting adult deer.
Once the deer study in Dane/Crawford counties is finished, we can measure the impact of predators in southern Wisconsin.
When wolves were not managed back then, there weren't 600,000 deer hunters. Trying to compare the 2 is apples to oranges. There wasn't an economy to impact either, there weren't farms and people all over.
That is why I said before, you can't manage all species but 1 in terms of human use and impact. The one you leave out will take off every time and impact the use of the others in regards to humans.
If you want to look back though, I have the 1937 hunting regs. I collect old hunting/fishing related things and came across it in an auction. Gun season was a couple days, only Manitowoc and Dane counties even had an archery season. Wolves were open and there is even an insert added after the original printing that extended the season into March (called them brush wolves). Throw in that the big logging boom was completed. So in summary - short deer season, long wolf season, prime habitat. I'm sure that carried it for a while. Of course back then there were hardly any deer in the farmland areas, nothing like today. It basically has flipped.
"Before Wisconsin was a territory, the wolves were unmanaged. Yet we still had deer, elk, caribou, moose and buffalo.
The wolves were unmanaged for decades on end and there was still a deer herd."
Perhaps a study of deer populations over time in Wisconsin and old growth forest is in order here.
Before Wisconsin was a territory, the wolves were unmanaged. Yet we still had deer, elk, caribou, moose and buffalo.
The wolves were unmanaged for decades on end and there was still a deer herd.
Recreating those conditions is impossible and trying to do so is also impossible.
There are factors why the deer herd is the size it is. Predators are one such factor.
We have a year round coyote season. Does this eliminate predation of fawns by coyotes ? No.
Neither will a limited wolf season impact the deer herd. Not long term.
Phat - That's not true, you've been hiding from covid. You told us all about that earlier. I'm joking by the way...
If you haven't seen one, you really haven't been out like you think though. Even my dad has seen some and he only sits in the woods a few days a year. The howling is eery when its within a couple hundred yards and you have to walk out in the dark.
The strangest encounter I had was one year after shooting a deer, I had blood on my boots from its head hitting me as I dragged. That afternoon I was walking ridges and for whatever reason I felt the need to look behind me. Just as I did a wolf came over the previous ridge and we locked eyes. It instantly thought ah crap and ran away, but it had to smell that deer blood on my boots. Not sure how else to explain it, but there was no doubt what it was. I honestly didn't think it would follow a person though, it had to smell me. My dad has already seen them come through and hit our trail, stop dead, and turn around.