FFS

So, I’m seeing reports of someone catching 29 Muskies and other reports of 10+ on the Fox River before daylight on opening day.  Just curious on people’s opinions on this.

Here’s mine:

A:  I feel that it is unethical harassment of fish that would otherwise not be caught.  I’ve not heard of someone catching that many fish in that short of time.

B:  I assure you fish are being snagged.

Dropped a hint on the “What did you do today” thread but nobody figured out what I referenced.  

Was wondering if anybody would pick up on the reference to “The Matrix”.   Classic  👍✌️

OneFineDay:  "The Choice is yours."  That was said by Morpheus to Neo.  
And there are many, many days when I wish I had taken the blue pill.

Wright, no worries man. I know you're doing your best not to kill fish all willie-nillie.  And whatever you are doing pales in comparison to what happens every spring when the lights come on.  Some of our debates were me just trying to get you to look at the big picture you kind of have the sky is falling attitude when it comes to the fishery.  I also hear your concerns, I think a lot of the decline can be the cumulative effect of 43 years of off-reservation spearing, spearing also changes the attitudes of sportsmen i.e. why throw this fish back when its just going to get speared next year, then its pretty well documented that the DNR went thru a period where they weren't paying enough attention to genetics of their broad stock.  I fished the Sawyer Co area every summer for several weeks from 1985-2015 and saw the walleye and muskie fishing really take a nose dive but the smallmouth fishing exploded.  I would say the smallmouth fishing in a couple of weeks is the only thing I could justify the driving up for, still pass through Hayward ever summer on my way to NW Ontario, I have family in Hayward and Stone Lake.    Enjoy your time on the water today, I've pretty much put my gear away until I head to Canada mid-Aug.  Water temps already pushing 80.   

Grace,

I don't think everyone on the lakes are screwing it up.  That is why I think this is a very serious threat.  I don't think it will take a real drastic percentage of anglers to do permanent damage on these small systems in Northern Wisconsin.  I do believe that the real problem lies in the ethics of the anglers and that's a big issue.  It's unfortunately ethics are not governed assuming no laws are broken.  You talk about education.  People are fully aware of the damage done by raping spawning beds, fishing muskies in hot water, etc.  But they are continued practices year after year.  

I do try to fish daily generally taking July off.  I consider myself a conservationist and try to always do what's best for the system.  The harassment I speak of is the practice of guys continuously following muskies around in open water for extended periods of time forcing the fish to finally bite or snag it when there is pretty much no chance that the fish would be caught without that technique.  

There is some truth to the retired fisherman comment.  I know of people that lake hop every day all winter doing their best to take home 25 panfish each day.  I don't agree with that either and without knowing, I assume they're well over possession limits.  So again, we already have all these ethical issues going on.  It's mine along with many others opinion that the electronics need to be tapered back for sustainability.  

We can debate this on and on but my stance is not going to change and obviously yours isn't either.  I get it.  People come up here and think it's great because it's better than the Southern part of the state or Illinois but the fact of the matter is, it's no where near what it was just 15 years ago.  And that's all species.  Things have really taken a turn for the worse since 2020. 

FFS is changing fishing not unlike other forms of technology has throughout recent decades & the new mouse trap I suspect is right around the corner. FFS is simply more efficient. One guy looking while his buddy is told where to drill the hole. It’s actually comical at times. “they’re 45’ that away”.                                                       Don’t own one & highly doubtful I ever will. Fairly confident I can hold my own without it. Numbers r down in lakes we r familiar with & I suspect we r once again our own worst enemy. More pressure, more combos in the parking lots, others who see lakes as a form of substance certainly is a whole other story, the ability to stay on the ice all day nowadays, & technology is puttin to much pressure on the resources.  We cannot  legislate common sense, thus my plea to lower limits & let’s see more enforcement of bag limits. More LE presence.  We can choose to b part of the problem or part of the solution, “the choice is yours…….Neo”.😉

If FFS leads to more caught fish, any species, it will also lead to more fish dying due to handling.  Thinking specifically about gills swallowing hooks.  But musky has to high on the list as well.  Taking them from the thermocline is a bad idea.  Fishing and catching when water is hot isn't the worst because they are already in that water column.  Just gotta handle them carefully and try to water release if you can.

I do have FFS.  I do use it for eyes and bass on the Bay.  I don't catch "more", but I do catch them more efficiently, for sure.  And I do know where the fish are.  I can tell you this...I love using MegaBass jerkbaits.  I love the baits, I know fish love to eat them, but they are awful baits when you look at how they hook fish, and hooks scrape around the fish in the net.  It isn't uncommon to bring in a small smallmouth and have one treble in it's mouth and another one or two sticking the fish elsewhere.  

So logic tells me that if I really dial in my FFS and I'm using megabass....I'm hurting the fish more.
If i'm using wacky worms, or if my wife uses wacky worms, she tends to "feed" them.  And getting the hook out isn't easy (on her fish).  So again, if I'm finding more fish on FFS and not being careful with my presentation, yes I'm harming more fish.

And I have not and will not sharp shoot muskies.  What I will do sometime is drive around with FFS and see if I can see suspended fish.  I need to see if it works that way where I fish.  But I'm not going after them.  I've caught enough in my life to not have a need to do it that way.

Wright, you are predictable, I knew you were going to say that about SM being on beds, once I looked at the date and realized the season was a couple weeks out.  The heat index is over 100 down here so excuse me for thinking it was later in June.  I'm pretty convinced that you think everyone else on the lake is screwing things, if they are catching fish they are mishandling, gut hooking, catching them in too deep water or water is too warm, keeping their limits everytime one gripe after another.  Where do you think you fit into this equation?  You just said you go fishing every single day, are you not catching any fish so there is no harrassment going on or do you give them a pep talk when you release them, so your uncapable of causing delayed mortality.  Tons of guys say the retired guy that fishes every single day is screwing things up.  

I hope you could catch a bunch of Smallmouths.  They’re sitting on beds in plain sight.

I fish daily on 20 lakes I’ve fished for 40 years.  If you’re implying you can just drive to the old honey hole where you got them 2 years ago, you’re wrong.  Certain patterns do follow certain weather on different bodies.  But that’s experience and not a given.  Crazy weather, tons of East wind.  Things change daily.  6.5” of rain the past two ​days.  This morning was really tough.  You don’t think it would have been easier with livescope?

I’m well aware that snagging is illegal.  But it’s definitely being done.  

I feel you’re extremely off on your visions of how this is being used.  I watch numerous people daily aimlessly driving around in the abyss.  Was that normal 5 years ago?  Do you know how hard it is to catch 30 crappies in July on most lakes?  Not anymore.  I’m quite jealous, I wish I could sit back and not care the way you do.  But it’s not how I’m wired.  I’ve witnessed firsthand how our lakes have changed negatively over the past 25 years and stuff like this needs to be addressed.  

If someone catches 75 walleyes but keeps 20, do you think all 55 released live?  Probably not fishing deep with livebait in the summer.  Now what if you have 20 guys doing it on the same small lake?  Just last week there were 6 guides on Whitefish at the same time.  None were scoping but just imagine if they were.   Could do some real damage out there fast.  Thankfully there is a group of guides that have pretty much shamed some of these younger guides/ YouTubers into not using it.  Its a start but we need to get it back on the spring ballot.

Wright I would agree if you were fishing a new lake or fishing at a time of year you're not used to fishing a lake  it could make a difference.  I havent fished LCO in a few years but I have zero doubt I could catch pile of smallmouth right now without a fish finder.   You dont have to fish every week to know where and how to catch fish, if you have caught fish in the past and paid attention.

 Anyways, you're talking about catching more fish (snagging is illegal).  'm talking about harvesting, is the guy that now has FFS  putting 30 walleyes in the freezer over the course of the season when before he had it he was only putting in 20.  Or is the guy that now has FFS still just keeping just 20 walleye, so there no additional harvest as the result of getting FFS.  That's what I'm talking about with additionality. I think there is a good chance people are all worked up over guys catching more fish but the difference in the number of fish they are taking home is insignificant.  Daily bag and possession limits are supposed to provide overharvesting protection whether its the guy with FFS or without it.  I dont have FFS but it wouldnt impact my harvest. 

Having fished with guides who use FFS it is almost uncomfortable being told to cast X amount of feet forward, watching the jig settle into the school of Crappies & then bringing ​the jig back & catching fish consistently. Little ​unsettling. Ice fishing is with FFS is also harming the fishery.  The only resolution imho is for the dnr to start lowering limits, especially the Crappies. ​unfortunately I have zero faith in the dnr as they are way way way to slow to react. 

So you’ve made comments about people fishing once a month or not much.  Don’t you think FFS cuts the process of fishing down?  Finding and patterning fish?  So to answer your question.  Absolutely people are catching more fish and at a quicker rate.  And snagging more fish.

I haven’t seen where people are saying it isn’t a significant advantage.  Anyone who would say that doesn’t know how to use it or they’re lying.  I have seen where people have them but choose not to use them unethically.

When it comes to FFS, I think about additionality, are guys that are using FFS catching significantly more fish than they were prior to getting FFS.   Folks that are ponying up for FFS are not novice fishermen; they were catching fish prior to getting FFS.  So the question is how many more fish does FFS allow them to catch and harvest given daily bag and possession limits, versus not having it and is it significant enough to matter?  There are a handful of guys that have chimed in on this thread that have FFS and seem to be somewhat indifferent about how much it has improved their catching.  So people might be freaking out for nothing.  

Wright, I agree fishing muskies in warm  >78  degree water is a likely death sentence whether they were caught in 8'  FOW or sharpshooting out of 25', but think this is an educational thing and not regulatory thing.     

That’s precisely the point of this discussion Robollio.  How much more can we pile on and be able to sustain?  Like you say, the internet has ruined a bunch of bites.  Why keep piling other detrimental factors into the mix?  Like noted, stocking and wildlife conservation in general is pretty low priority in this state right now.  Do we treat it like I’m going to get mine while it lasts or are we going to try and conserve?

This very website and other social media has done more harm then livesonar. I've seen small lakes absolutely destroyed in a month of ice fishing in southeast Wisconsin when word got out on a hot bite. It takes one single punk to ruin it for everyone. Part of the reason I just don't care to post anymore. I have FFS and enjoy it to find cribs and whatnot. But tend to use my other stuff more. If I told you the lake I ice fish though it would get absolutely raped by numbers of people without FFS.