FFS

So, I’m seeing reports of someone catching 29 Muskies and other reports of 10+ on the Fox River before daylight on opening day.  Just curious on people’s opinions on this.

Here’s mine:

A:  I feel that it is unethical harassment of fish that would otherwise not be caught.  I’ve not heard of someone catching that many fish in that short of time.

B:  I assure you fish are being snagged.

If FFS leads to more caught fish, any species, it will also lead to more fish dying due to handling.  Thinking specifically about gills swallowing hooks.  But musky has to high on the list as well.  Taking them from the thermocline is a bad idea.  Fishing and catching when water is hot isn't the worst because they are already in that water column.  Just gotta handle them carefully and try to water release if you can.

I do have FFS.  I do use it for eyes and bass on the Bay.  I don't catch "more", but I do catch them more efficiently, for sure.  And I do know where the fish are.  I can tell you this...I love using MegaBass jerkbaits.  I love the baits, I know fish love to eat them, but they are awful baits when you look at how they hook fish, and hooks scrape around the fish in the net.  It isn't uncommon to bring in a small smallmouth and have one treble in it's mouth and another one or two sticking the fish elsewhere.  

So logic tells me that if I really dial in my FFS and I'm using megabass....I'm hurting the fish more.
If i'm using wacky worms, or if my wife uses wacky worms, she tends to "feed" them.  And getting the hook out isn't easy (on her fish).  So again, if I'm finding more fish on FFS and not being careful with my presentation, yes I'm harming more fish.

And I have not and will not sharp shoot muskies.  What I will do sometime is drive around with FFS and see if I can see suspended fish.  I need to see if it works that way where I fish.  But I'm not going after them.  I've caught enough in my life to not have a need to do it that way.

Wright, you are predictable, I knew you were going to say that about SM being on beds, once I looked at the date and realized the season was a couple weeks out.  The heat index is over 100 down here so excuse me for thinking it was later in June.  I'm pretty convinced that you think everyone else on the lake is screwing things, if they are catching fish they are mishandling, gut hooking, catching them in too deep water or water is too warm, keeping their limits everytime one gripe after another.  Where do you think you fit into this equation?  You just said you go fishing every single day, are you not catching any fish so there is no harrassment going on or do you give them a pep talk when you release them, so your uncapable of causing delayed mortality.  Tons of guys say the retired guy that fishes every single day is screwing things up.  

I hope you could catch a bunch of Smallmouths.  They’re sitting on beds in plain sight.

I fish daily on 20 lakes I’ve fished for 40 years.  If you’re implying you can just drive to the old honey hole where you got them 2 years ago, you’re wrong.  Certain patterns do follow certain weather on different bodies.  But that’s experience and not a given.  Crazy weather, tons of East wind.  Things change daily.  6.5” of rain the past two ​days.  This morning was really tough.  You don’t think it would have been easier with livescope?

I’m well aware that snagging is illegal.  But it’s definitely being done.  

I feel you’re extremely off on your visions of how this is being used.  I watch numerous people daily aimlessly driving around in the abyss.  Was that normal 5 years ago?  Do you know how hard it is to catch 30 crappies in July on most lakes?  Not anymore.  I’m quite jealous, I wish I could sit back and not care the way you do.  But it’s not how I’m wired.  I’ve witnessed firsthand how our lakes have changed negatively over the past 25 years and stuff like this needs to be addressed.  

If someone catches 75 walleyes but keeps 20, do you think all 55 released live?  Probably not fishing deep with livebait in the summer.  Now what if you have 20 guys doing it on the same small lake?  Just last week there were 6 guides on Whitefish at the same time.  None were scoping but just imagine if they were.   Could do some real damage out there fast.  Thankfully there is a group of guides that have pretty much shamed some of these younger guides/ YouTubers into not using it.  Its a start but we need to get it back on the spring ballot.

Wright I would agree if you were fishing a new lake or fishing at a time of year you're not used to fishing a lake  it could make a difference.  I havent fished LCO in a few years but I have zero doubt I could catch pile of smallmouth right now without a fish finder.   You dont have to fish every week to know where and how to catch fish, if you have caught fish in the past and paid attention.

 Anyways, you're talking about catching more fish (snagging is illegal).  'm talking about harvesting, is the guy that now has FFS  putting 30 walleyes in the freezer over the course of the season when before he had it he was only putting in 20.  Or is the guy that now has FFS still just keeping just 20 walleye, so there no additional harvest as the result of getting FFS.  That's what I'm talking about with additionality. I think there is a good chance people are all worked up over guys catching more fish but the difference in the number of fish they are taking home is insignificant.  Daily bag and possession limits are supposed to provide overharvesting protection whether its the guy with FFS or without it.  I dont have FFS but it wouldnt impact my harvest. 

Having fished with guides who use FFS it is almost uncomfortable being told to cast X amount of feet forward, watching the jig settle into the school of Crappies & then bringing ​the jig back & catching fish consistently. Little ​unsettling. Ice fishing is with FFS is also harming the fishery.  The only resolution imho is for the dnr to start lowering limits, especially the Crappies. ​unfortunately I have zero faith in the dnr as they are way way way to slow to react. 

So you’ve made comments about people fishing once a month or not much.  Don’t you think FFS cuts the process of fishing down?  Finding and patterning fish?  So to answer your question.  Absolutely people are catching more fish and at a quicker rate.  And snagging more fish.

I haven’t seen where people are saying it isn’t a significant advantage.  Anyone who would say that doesn’t know how to use it or they’re lying.  I have seen where people have them but choose not to use them unethically.

When it comes to FFS, I think about additionality, are guys that are using FFS catching significantly more fish than they were prior to getting FFS.   Folks that are ponying up for FFS are not novice fishermen; they were catching fish prior to getting FFS.  So the question is how many more fish does FFS allow them to catch and harvest given daily bag and possession limits, versus not having it and is it significant enough to matter?  There are a handful of guys that have chimed in on this thread that have FFS and seem to be somewhat indifferent about how much it has improved their catching.  So people might be freaking out for nothing.  

Wright, I agree fishing muskies in warm  >78  degree water is a likely death sentence whether they were caught in 8'  FOW or sharpshooting out of 25', but think this is an educational thing and not regulatory thing.     

That’s precisely the point of this discussion Robollio.  How much more can we pile on and be able to sustain?  Like you say, the internet has ruined a bunch of bites.  Why keep piling other detrimental factors into the mix?  Like noted, stocking and wildlife conservation in general is pretty low priority in this state right now.  Do we treat it like I’m going to get mine while it lasts or are we going to try and conserve?

This very website and other social media has done more harm then livesonar. I've seen small lakes absolutely destroyed in a month of ice fishing in southeast Wisconsin when word got out on a hot bite. It takes one single punk to ruin it for everyone. Part of the reason I just don't care to post anymore. I have FFS and enjoy it to find cribs and whatnot. But tend to use my other stuff more. If I told you the lake I ice fish though it would get absolutely raped by numbers of people without FFS.

That’s sadly true River.  We as a society have proven that unless directed by law, we are unable to do the right thing.  Always get the answer “it’s not against the law.”

Sounds like not so much a FFS problem rather the usual problem of ignoring the bigger picture in regards to our outdoor pursuits and this falls right inline with the daily parade of pontoon boats pleasure cruising through spawning beds and "conservation clubs" spreading several thousand pounds of lead every year shooting clay targets.   

I should have labeled it FFS Muskies.  I don't like it for any fishing but especially for big fish like Muskies.  It isn't difficult at all to cruise these small basins in Northern Wisconsin and pick these fish off.  They stick out like a sore thumb in open water.  In the summer months especially these fish are being yanked up off the thermocline in hot water conditions which makes it 10 times worse.  We are finding at least 4 floating fish every summer because of this.  They don't all float so a would have to say we're losing at least a couple more than that.  Now the lake I live on is 800 acres and the DNR says there are about 260 muskies in there or roughly .3 per acre.  With the great reduction in stocking, if we loose 6 to livescope, 6 more to poor handling and 3 to the panfish and walleye fisherman on accidental catch and keeps, it's not good.  That's losing nearly 10% of the population yearly.  Obviously more fish caught equals more fish handled.  Also think about the fish that was just caught, released and now resting.  Then someone comes by and spot lights it.  Many of these guys are snagging fish.  If that fish is snagged its all but dead before it even hits the net.  

This isn't a jealousy thing at all.  This is a true threat to muskie populations.  I am a Muskie fishing addict, so I do care about the resource significantly.  Muskies take nearly 10 years to reach 40 inches in most of our waters.  A four footer is 20+ years old and so many people act like it's not a big deal if a 45 inch fish sitting 25' below the surface in 80 degree water is snagged and killed for a picture and bragging rights.  Once it's gone, it's gone.  You guys think it can't happen.  Just look at big waters like Mille Lacs and Vermilion.  Those lakes are shells of themselves since the introduction of livescope and the reduction in stocking.  I think you need to get back to the normal stocking levels of the early 2000's for this style of fishing to not be detrimental.  

Picture below is a 4 footer that floated up last summer.  Fish was witnessed being sniped by a guy fishing league in 80+ degree water.

There's a reason why the PMTT outlawed the use of FFS. Two days prior to any tournament through the last day.

Like, I'm not a huge fan of live sonar.  I have it, it was gifted to me.  I do use it a little bit, but overall I can do without it easily.
I've seen boards and television shows, ruin lakes and spots faster than FFS will ever ruin them.

I've got more issue with Go Pro/YouTube fishing heroes than I do FFS.  Combine them?  Worst of both worlds.  They bring way too much pressure to a lake or spot.

Would agree that a lot of guys/women who own one, gets out when they can, which isn’t much in some cases. My Buddy has one but hasn’t done much fishing so far this year. He hit it heavy last fall though. 
You had me laughing talkin about the Snoopy Pole! 😂🎣