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The great bow /crossbow debate

10/31/18 @ 1:32 PM
ORIGINAL POST
str8shot
User since 11/19/10

Since I have about 2 months to burn being laid up and haven't been on in a while, I figured I would see how some fellow lake linkers feel on the topic of crossbows now that they have been legal in the archery season for a few years. 

I'm interested in knowing WHY (big emphasis on the "WHY")….you either do or don't support having them being a part of the archery season. 

As the thread progresses I figure I'll have chances to support my own thoughts on the topic.





DISPLAYING 51 TO 60 OF 520 POSTS
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1/31/19 @ 2:44 PM
Fishsqueezer
User since 5/19/06

You have to admit it’d be pretty fun pickin off muskies at 100 yards with one of them ravins. 

1/31/19 @ 12:29 PM
Fishsqueezer
User since 5/19/06

“Then the 50" size limit is purely to try to get fish to get to their maximum potential. I don't see how you can support a 50" size limit for muskie, but any idea to increase the age structure of bucks or limit harvest is a horrid idea”

Where did I say i supported a 50” size limit? Only if biologically necessary, but I think you will find pretty much every lake with a 50” limit is sustained by stocking so it really is a social issue and terrible comparison in this context. 

“Why, in general, do larger deer survive severe winters moreso than smaller deer?Why is the body size bigger in deer as you move from Florida to Ontario?

Bergmann’s Rule, high school biology stuff there

In the past 50 years, a 5.5 year old buck in most of the state definitely has a large combination of luck and behavior (more nocturnal) that influences their survival. In areas where the majority of deer are passed or where there is little hunting pressure and where there are severe winters and a lot of wolves, it is more than luck some deer get older. Deer are not killed by disease, winter or wolves completely at random - some have adaptations/traits that increase their chance of survival.”

So why would we harvest these animals instead of allowing them to pass their superior genes evolved over the last 50 years? If anything, if your hypothetical scenario was the case, you shouldn’t harvest any old, large bucks. Another question, not to rehash this this, but in some of our past exchanges you stated allowing baiting allows more deer to survive the winter thus increasing productivity. How does this affect natural selection that is all of the sudden of importance in this threads context? 

“Natural selection/evolution can happen much faster than "hundreds of thousands of years". When you get situations like severe winters....

Severe winters are nothing new and on average (exceptions I know) have been less severe over the past couple decades...

or a new disease that can potentially kill large numbers of deer, or influxes of wolves that wipe out a large population of the herd,mutations/genetics are selected quicker due to these events.

Wouldn’t the leftover deer the possess these mutations since it happens that fast?

Shooting large numbers of immature deer before they have been exposed to disease or bad winters can potentially lead to outcomes we may not be evaluating appropriately. This has also been shown in lakes and ponds where overharvest of only the largest fish can quickly result in genetic changes (smaller fish genetics are protected and can reproduce more).”

Again why would we harvest these individuals if they are genetically more fit to survive? Does the rancher kill his bulls every year? And even more so, with some sort of genetic response as one of the possible ways out of the CWD problem, why on earth would you shoot an old mature buck in a known CWD area then if this was the case? Perhaps he has the immunity gene but can’t pass it on hanging on a wall. In reality, any thoughts of affecting the genetic fitness of a wild free ranging deer herd through selective harvest or regulation is laughable. 

1/31/19 @ 11:18 AM
JC-Wisconsin
User since 4/1/05
I don't really care for allowing crossbows, but can live with it.  I also don't really care what weapon someone uses to shoot their deer, I just think we are shooting too many of them (especially bucks).  I would gladly support a 1 buck/year regulation or other methods to reduce the pressure on bucks in this state.

1/31/19 @ 11:15 AM
JC-Wisconsin
User since 4/1/05

"A 50” musky is female so really apples to acorns. In reality a 50” size limit doesn’t do much anyway since that fish started spawning in the 30’s and probably already replaced itself if the lake it came from has a self sustaining population otherwise it’s even more moot. Most muskie lakes are sustained by stocking so yet another purely social issue used as the straw man."

Then the 50" size limit is purely to try to get fish to get to their maximum potential.  I don't see how you can support a 50" size limit for muskie, but any idea to increase the age structure of bucks or limit harvest is a horrid idea.

"And a 5.5 year old buck in WI gets that old purely by luck, genetics plays very little into that."

Why, in general, do larger deer survive severe winters moreso than smaller deer?  Why is the body size bigger in deer as you move from Florida to Ontario?  In the past 50 years, a 5.5 year old buck in most of the state definitely has a large combination of luck and behavior (more nocturnal) that influences their survival.  In areas where the majority of deer are passed or where there is little hunting pressure and where there are severe winters and a lot of wolves, it is more than luck some deer get older.  Deer are not killed by disease, winter or wolves completely at random - some have adaptations/traits that increase their chance of survival.

"The natural selection process played out over hundreds of thousands of years, not the last 50. "

Natural selection/evolution can happen much faster than "hundreds of thousands of years".   When you get situations like severe winters or  a new disease that can potentially kill large numbers of deer, or influxes of wolves that wipe out a large population of the herd, mutations/genetics are selected quicker due to these events.  Shooting large numbers of immature deer before they have been exposed to disease or bad winters can potentially lead to outcomes we may not be evaluating appropriately.  This has also been shown in lakes and ponds where overharvest of only the largest fish can quickly result in genetic changes (smaller fish genetics are protected and can reproduce more).  

1/31/19 @ 10:05 AM
haf2fsh
MEMBER since 6/23/01

I've read this thread since the start and its been beat to death !!  I've gun hunted for 56 years bow hunted 10 when it was legal for me to shoot x-bow, I'm blind in my right eye so never could shoot a semi recurve  with any success.  At 75 getting long in the tooth and don't move in the woods like I used too. Also not near the younger hunters today as when I was started, the day after Kennedy was shot. Not that my generation were better hunters, but we did more with less. With declining numbers DNR  is doing everything they can to get people into the woods. With increasing numbers of different season, to liberal tagging and registration. Heck when I started hunting it was buck only, and if you shot it during the archery season, you were done. Then they came up with the "party permit" where 4 hunters could sent in to conservation department and get a tag to shoot a doe for camp meat. Guess what back then no older hunter  wanted to shoot a doe, so generally the youngest of group got the doe. As the deer moved south during the 80's farmers starting having crop damage, and more deer were hit on the road. So DNR was pressured to  allow doe's to be shot for first time. New generation of hunters loved that, then alone came CWD, and the DNR turned it into a slaughter. Also had several seasons of "earn a buck" dumbest thing I ever heard of, cost me the biggest buck I ever saw in the woods. Today I just limp into the woods and shake my head, to me there are no rules anymore. I just buy what's nescary, limp into the woods and hunt like a did 50 years ago, sitting on a stump or up against a tree till my butt gets cold, then sit some more. I hunt for two reasons and two reasons only, time in the woods and meat in the freezer. Pick me apart if you wish, but that's how its done, old school.

 



1/31/19 @ 6:36 AM
SnakeSter
SnakeSter
User since 7/9/12

I agree. Use what you want as long as it’s archery. Whippy Ding! I like both bows. Who cares what the Cavemen say? Wow! 

1/30/19 @ 7:56 PM
bass423
MEMBER since 3/1/12

I think we have exhausted this topic. It all comes down to what makes you happy.  For me personally, its about getting old and not being able to hold a bow at full draw anymore. X-bow has extended my deer hunting for a few more years.

I try to accept the things I cannot change, and if it doesn't affect my breathing then its not that important.

Peace out

1/30/19 @ 5:20 PM
Brother of the brush
User since 1/22/12

Northern, if your post had a like button, I would click it!!

1/30/19 @ 4:11 PM
northernexsposure
User since 3/15/08

Am I the only one who doesn't care what someone else uses to shoot their deer?   You don't see a guy with a lever action 30-30 griping because someone else is using a semi-auto 30-06. 

If everyone got back to group hunting I think that would solve a lot of hunter differences.  With a group, we BS between ever drive and at the end of the day you BS some more.  It's more about having a good time with friends/family and less about deer.  When guys sit in a stand in solitude their mind tends to over think every aspect of hunting and it becomes only about the deer and seems to drive them crazy. 

1/30/19 @ 3:43 PM
BugleTrout
BugleTrout
User since 9/27/01

Go on the WI DNR's website and look at the various hunting seasons. Note that the Archery and Crossbow Season ran from Sept 15, 2018 to Jan 6, 2019 this past year. Sounds like they have their place as far as I'm concerned. They even call them out by name.

DISPLAYING 51 TO 60 OF 520 POSTS
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