Can both co-exist with high growth rates on small to mid sized lakes or is it a "one or the other" type of thing. I've heard a lot on this topic the past couple of years and am interesting in your opinions.
Wisconsin Fishing Discussion
Walleye and Largemouth Bass
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A complex issue for sure. No easy answer. Lots of lakes up here don't have shoreline development, so if that is one of the problems, it only applies to some lakes. But, I do agree with leaving things as natural as possible on waters. Just makes sense to leave things be.
Personally, I find this issue interesting. I fish pike mostly. I enjoy bass fishing. Just not very good at catching walleyes, so I focus on what I can catch. But, when I catch a walleye by "accident" it's always nice.
I have noticed that walleyes and crappies seem to be the two fish of choice up here by locals and the fish most often kept instead of released.
I read in InFisherman that a large perch population can have a negative effect on walleye populations as well. I believe it stated the perch spawn right before the walleye and then cruise the walleye spawning areas and feast on the fry. I guess when the walleye hatch they are too weak to swim so the vertically bob up and down and drift with the current and eat plankton until they grow enough to swim and find shelter. During this time the perch have a feast on the fry. I have no idea how true this is, but it seemed to make sense.
Basically what the article stated was if there is an over population of perch, even little guys, it might be in the best interest to harvest them.
I also wonder how many other species take advantage of the vulnerable fry if there is larger populations of say... bass, bluegill, crappie and so on.
Just a thought. Could be completely off and have no hindrance on walleyes. Just what I read.
Bass taste really good if you put them on ice immediately after catching them. Right now, they are easy to catch too. If you are worried about bass ruining your walleye fishing, then eat bass, not walleye for a few years.
What is being ignored is what has happened to our habitat on lake shoreline zones. It has become a free for all with people who own land on lake being allowed to do all kinds of things on shore, and in the water. This favors bass, which can live in a more poluted environment because they are nest breeders. Walleye just scatter their eggs on "rocks" or in some cases marsh grass.
If a property owner has poor soil conservation by having a manicured lawn right up to the lake, and they fertilized the heck out of it, you are going to get algae growing on the rocks that walleye use to spawn. Is it enough to smother their eggs? Well, as the rules for shoreline property owners were relaxed around 2012, the walleye reproduction dropped to zero in many lakes, you figure it out.
No amount of stocking can make up for losing natural reproduction on a lake. No walleye initiative can replace what nature gave us for decades. And in one decade, we have given it all up. The DNR has/had has many commited scientists who use to be allowed to make the "tough decisions" needed to protect our lakes. Now, the leader is appointed by a politician. Some of our best scientists are fleeing to Minnesota and other states where their work is appreciated, financially rewarded and valued instead of being undercut by politicians.
The next big move is to stop regulating CAFOs (Concentrated Animimal Feeding Operations) by the DNR and move them to a more "business friendly" segment of state regulation.
Anyone who cares about trout streams should look at what CAFOs do to spring water. Or better yet google "trout stream fish kills wisconsin" or "Kewaunee County Groudwater" and see what happens when they are allowed to have their way with our environment.
The DNR should not be a political tool. It should be used to protect the treasures that nature gave us in Wisconsin from people who either don't understand what their actions cause, or from people who don't care.
Here's some info on a study that someone referenced on this thread.
Fished a new lake with a friend today in Vilas. Under 100 acres. Once had a good walleye population from all indications. What did we find? No walleyes. A high number of Largemouth bass and a few other species. Thankfully the bass weren't stunted. All different sizes. A few walleyes appear to still exist on the lake according to the guy I fished with, but Largemouth are clearly the dominant fish.
There may be small lakes with largemouth and walleye in good numbers and sizes out there in northern Wisconsin, but I've yet to find one. Largemouth are in high numbers. I do think a big part of it is that Largemouth are generally released while walleyes are almost always kept. And walleyes are more vulnerable during the ice season.
Not that easy goosecaller. As others have stated, there are myriad environmental factors that are evolving/changing that may make certain aquatic environments more favorable for SM bass and less favorable for walleyes. The existence of more bass than walleyes doesn't necessarily mean they are the specific cause of the change.
We fish a lake in the far northwestern corner of WI. 20 - 30 years ago it would be nothing to catch a bunch of walleyes, sort through the small ones and keep a couple for dinner. At that time, we would catch an occasional SM bass and it was something. We would marvel at their strength and have fun with the occasional "trophy". As years passed we would catch more and more SM bass; now, within the last few years, you can hardly catch a walleye and can catch all the SM bass you want... They are now dumping fingerlings and extended growth walleyes into the lake and it is still hard to catch one. I have a pretty good idea what has caused the walleye decline on that lake.
Ulbian gives one great example with Shawano lake. Another is the example of Canadian lakes I fish in Quetico. Smally bag limits have been increased because walleye populations have been on the downswing. Catch and release has it's place, but for the Provincial Parks the rules have been changed to see if there is a improvement of balance between the species. Don't know if this relates to your lake or not, but Minnesota has just changed it's management of northern pike; and making different rules dividing the state into zones kind of like we have here in Wisconsin. They created slot limits for each area. Something to watch, because Wisconsin sometimes copies them if the results are favorable.
I've caught walleyes on crayfish cranks before, so I'll say they do eat them.
As far as LM populations exploding, how many people think the negligible harvest of them might be part of the problem? Bass fishermen, for the most part (at least to my knowledge), pride themselves in being catch and release. But if what walleyes are in a lake are kept, or don't reproduce sufficiently, and all bass are returned, that will certainly skew the numbers in my mind.
Thoughts?
https://www.twincities.com/2013/06/22/in-wisconsin-walleye-vs-largemouth-bass/
Here's a really interesting article I dug up. Ulbian alluded to some of it's points.
This quote for the article, as well as points in the article itself, seem to indicate in many cases either the walleye or the bass will dominate. As one rises, the other falls.
“What we had been noticing is that for the last decade, we had failed year classes of walleye year after year, even on lakes where we had never seen that before,” Wolter said. “We identified it six or seven years ago, and over time it’s just becoming more and more obvious. It’s basically a dominance issue: For decades, we basically had walleye-dominated lakes, and now we’ve flipped that and have largemouth-dominated lakes. … Look at Big Sissabagama. That was a great, great walleye lake for decades. Now, it’s got some of the largest largemouth densities of anywhere in the state.
Maybe, maybe not. It’s not as simple as a yes or no. Many other factors can come into play. Water clarity, are there any invasives and what are they, what is the lake’s primary water source, etc., etc.
Many northern lakes have shifted from smallmouth to largemouth dominant. Many of those same lakes have seen a significant dip in walleye numbers. This will probably open a can of worms but too many place the blame of decreasing walleye numbers on tribal harvest without considering other factors. Well manicured lawns dumping phosphates into the system which have altered weed types and locations. Presence of zebra mussels which will increase water clarity. A boom in LM population. Walleye population dynamics are far more complex than just looking at harvest numbers. When you see a lake shift from SM to LM there’s a significant environmental reason or reasons behind it.
I like to use Shawano Lake as an example to open the minds of people who only want to look at tribal harvest for dwindling walleye numbers. That lake is not in the ceded territory therefore it has never been speared. At one time it was a very respectable walleye fishery but around 15-18 years ago it tanked. There are very, very few smallmouth in the lake itself but it always has had an abundant LM population. So what happened? 1) Zebra mussels blew up in there and the water clarity changed big time. 2) An already abundant LM population exploded. LM primarily feed by sight. Clear the water up and walleye fry are easy pickings. 3) With so called “cleaner” water certain types of weeds, specifically Eurasian Milfoil, choked out preferred weedy habitat for the walleyes. You can’t blame this on a harvest method. The LM population reached a point in there where it was 4-5 times higher than what the WDNR feels comfortable with when they pursue a walleye program...meaning...they weren’t going to use state funds to stock it with walleye fry because it was such an uphill battle. A WFT group formed and has been loading the lake with fry but the results are somewhat inconclusive. At the same time, because there was a private group investing in it, the WDNR began regular stockings of extended growth walleyes (big enough to not be a LM meal) and those are now being caught. Recapture of year class fish (fyke netting, electro fishing) from the WFT fry stockings have been lower than desired. Overall the program isn’t a complete waste but it’s still a matter of pushing a boulder back up a mountain.
So...can they coexist? There are three answers. No chance in hell. Yes, they definitely can if conditions are right. Maybe but for them to do so intervention might be needed.
There is a dnr study kind of related to this on McDermott lake. There was just an article on js about it which sounds pretty interesting. Mostly studying why walleye are declining in numbers, while largemouth bass numbers seem to be exploding. Fairly common situation in many northern wi lakes.
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