Waterfowl Regulations

So I was having a nice discussion with Kent Van Horn the WDNR biologist in charge of our waterfowl seasons in Wisconsin. He made a comment that they come under a lot of pressure to simplify the waterfowl hunting regulations. I'm always for making something simpler however not at the cost of lost opportunities. My example would be how the bluebill limits changed during the season a few years ago. For part of the season you could shoot X and then the rest Y. So hunters submitted complaints about the changes in bag limits during the season. This has made the DNR hesitant to try and do something similar with other species. I asked him when if ever they will increase the limits on redheads in the state as we see and shoot lots. He said no as it would have to be studied on a species specific level and then that species would have changing bag limits during the season or would remain at the lower of the two levels which would be two redheads just as we have. So my question to all waterfowl hunters. How do you feel about changing bag limits during the season if you got to shoot more during certain dates? Example: 2 redheads during the month of Oct. and 3 the rest of the season. Or 2 redheads all season. I would rather have the changing bag limit during the season then being able to shoot a lower amount all season. Kent gave me the impression I'm one of few that feel that way. So I thought I would ask all of you. Thanks

About those Widgeon's: As someone who's hunted the Grand River Marsh for every opener going back to the mid 90's when I was a teen..I remember the days when me and my buds would be so irritated cause all we harvested seemed to be Widgeon. There were years where that made up a majority of our 6 bird limit. I remember that lasting until the mid aughts or so and for the latter part of the aughts we were practically despondent because we would hardly ever see them and we whooped for joy whenever someone smacked one of those striped face suckers. Then enter the 2013 and 2014 season and it was just like old times. Circle of life? Less marsh? I don't flippin understand waterfowl one bit I think lol. -Quacked

Interesting about the widgeon. I found the lake I've hunted on for the past 40 years was blanketed with widgeon ande when the shooting started at noon, there was a tornado of them that got up from the refuge. That was the bird of choice, along with the redheads, which we couldn't shoot back then.. waves of redheads and we couldn't pull the trigger. But, as time went on, the late 80's and into the 90's, the widgeon disappeared. Why you say? Because the DNR took the refuge out to expand hunting opportunities. Well, when that happened, the redheads and widgeon no longer used the lake and it was pretty dismal hunting. Yes, a few local redheads nest there..I may shoot one every two years or so..If your lucky and hit the right day in late October, you might get a good push of redheads from up north, but there one day, gone tomorrow..and I might add, back then, a wood duck was non existent. Now days, I do see a good amount use the lake.

Anecdotally, I haven't seen a major change in the numbers of wood ducks in my area. I think it is worth taking a look at the amount of logging being done on public lands since 2010. Less mature trees means less nesting cavities.

when did a 47% increase become insignificent?

just forget it.

CPR, To respond to your wood duck example I respond with the can example. Every time we go to 2 the following year is 1 or 0. Water levels have been consistent in recent years. With birds that have smaller numbers, limits that are set play more of a role. Bad example. We were talking HARVEST totals. I was strictly talking harvest numbers of Wood ducks did not go anywhere near off the charts after increasing from 2-3 in the entire MS flyway. According to the Fed harvest numbers in 2012 when the limit Can limit was 1 the MS flyway shot 52K Cans, in 2013 it was increased to limit of 2 and 76K were harvested. Not off the charts by any means. And just to be clear, the flight count breeding pair numbers for Can's that sets those bag limits is not set up to accurately count Canvasback do to a large number of factors. Unfortunately those were the parrameters that were set so we must work within them.

Not true. The years we went from 2 to 0 there was a significant loss of potholes throughout the prime canvasback breeding area. The birds were forced to out or breed in less than favorable conditions causing a major spike in population. Hunting attributes to about 75,000. Do the math.

CPR, To respond to your wood duck example I respond with the can example. Every time we go to 2 the following year is 1 or 0. Water levels have been consistent in recent years. With birds that have smaller numbers, limits that are set play more of a role. pike, Notice I placed widgeon last as they haven't taken as hard of a hit but certainly Wisconsin does not have the numbers they once did. The limit on bluebill and widgeon was 7 and 10 for a while (10 and 15 points). bluebill have never recovered. of course everything I say is my 2 cents so ono need to be critical of anything I post.

Hunting has very little impact if any on the duck populations. Increasing the daily limit of redheads for example by 1 bird will come nowhere near equally 60 extra redheads in anyone's season total. There will be a slight increase in harvest but overall very little since very few kill 2 in day. Redheads tend to congregate in specific areas not offering opportunity to every hunter. Very similar to canvasbacks which is one of the least harvested bird percentage wise of their population. Some hunters will often blame the closure of the can season a few years ago on the 2 bird limit the year before. Not the cause at all since very few hunters kill one a season let alone 2 per day. Another example is when the canvasback season was closed for 10 years with very little change in population. Once the water came back the population almost doubled and continued to increase even with the opening of the season. Habitat/water controls the populations, not harvest for ducks.

Duckwidow you stated widgeon never over came there high limit days. Isn't the limit on widgeon still 6 birds? Did it used to be higher? Just asking a question not trying to pick a fight.

It's great to hear that large numbers of cans and redheads were seen in different areas. I do know that when birds migrate they normally follow the same "path', so to speak. But that path can shift one way or another, from year to year, by 50 to 100 miles. What dictates this? Who knows. That 1.2 million figure on the Redheads, you have to remember, are not all the birds that come thru Wisconsin.( Now before you say anything on that, most guys know this, but some don't). There have been some good points made on this thread. But I would like to point one thing out.. If the Can population was so good, why did we get dropped from two a day to one a day in '14. Can's got hurt again on breeding. Redheads are just as vunerable. Goose numbers are down. It's important to look at the whole picture not just a piece of it. I have to agree with the comment about "seen a lot of birds". I know guys that think a big number of ducks for the day was seeing 6! (seriously!) LOL

Duckwidow wrote---- Some guys think that seeing 200 redhead is a lot. For the record its not. Neither is 1.2 million. To say upping the limit would not have an impact would be foolish. If I normally could kill 2 and now can kill 3 well thats 1 more per day times the amount of days I now get 3 times the amount of hunters across this great land that do the same. Now multiply that by years and there you go...end up with something like the bluebill, pintail, and widgeon that have never overcame their high limit days. Just my opinion. Yeah, just look at when they raised Woodduck limit from 2 to 3 in the MS flyway in 2008. The harvest when off the charts!!!! ...... Wait, no it didn't. See chart. Hunting is just a small portion of the overall factors of population dynamic. Changing a daily bag limit from 2 to 3 has a very small effect because limits are rarely achieved by most hunters. And I'm not advocating the silliness of raising the Redhead limit just because "gosh, i see lot more of dem". You will not likely see a bump in Redhead limits anytime soon due to factors discussed earlier in this post.

I am by no means in favor of raising the redhead bag limit. But I also saw a lot more redheads and cans last season than I normally do. And not just a few hundred more....they were everywhere on the lake I hunt (5000 +acre lake).

Some guys think that seeing 200 redhead is a lot. For the record its not. Neither is 1.2 million. To say upping the limit would not have an impact would be foolish. If I normally could kill 2 and now can kill 3 well thats 1 more per day times the amount of days I now get 3 times the amount of hunters across this great land that do the same. Now multiply that by years and there you go...end up with something like the bluebill, pintail, and widgeon that have never overcame their high limit days. Just my opinion.

I too remember the point system as well as Cans. But on the contrary, I saw enough Cans to keep me looking for the Big Bull and tons of Reds.