Wisconsin's Unmanaged Wolves

11/13/17 @ 10:35 AM
ORIGINAL POST
Farnorthbadger
Farnorthbadger
USER since 12/7/13

A very interesting possible end around of longtime federal inaction on the out of control  Wisconsin wolf packs.

Edited on 11/13/17 10:37 AM
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Displaying 60 to 69 of 498 Posts
1/29/18 @ 5:09 PM
Brother of the brush
Brother of the brush
USER since 1/22/12

Good read PLH.  At least there's a few people left with some common sense.

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1/29/18 @ 3:01 PM
Publiclandhunter
Publiclandhunter
USER since 8/31/11

Just leaving this here for FNB, I think he'll like the comment section after the article   

uw-study-questions-effectiveness-killing-wolves-protect-livestock

Here is what we know about Natives and their current and historic role in predator management.

* Early Shipping manifest for return trips to Europe show great numbers of predator pelts including young wolf pelts from dug up dens along with hibernating bears both as being common place.

* Excavation of discard pits from early Native Americans shows ratios averaging 65 prey 35 predator bones.

*Native American lived with dogs as pets. Anyone with any knowledge of an outdoor people living with dogs in the way Indians would have would know this to be absurd. Without a doubt, an outdoor people WOULD NOT “live in harmony” with wolves (at least the way wolf huggers would want us to believe) & have (Canis Lupus Familiaris) dogs as pets.

* Letharia vulpina – wolf poison - goes back to AT LEAST 1759 & was believed to have been used by and originated with natives to kill wolves and foxes (predators) by stuffing dead animals with this lichen…

* Young Apache Native Americans would kill wolves, cougars or bears as a rite of passage to adulthood.

* The Confederated Tribes of the Colville Indian Reservation have opened a hunting season for gray wolves two years ago on their reservation that sprawls across 1.4 million acres even before delisting and hunting of wolves all across Washington State. Wolves are not hunted in the state of Washington to this day EXCEPT on the reservation.



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1/29/18 @ 1:47 PM
amaranthlost
amaranthlost
USER since 5/31/10

It was for an orally administered vaccine but it also required 8 or so rounds of boosters, which would not be feasible for a wild population. My main point was that we are nowhere near a viable vaccine nor has there been any vaccine for any human prion-based disease let alone for other animals.

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1/29/18 @ 12:07 PM
JC-Wisconsin
JC-Wisconsin
USER since 4/1/05

You are likely referring to the CWD vaccine utilizing salmonella as the carrier.  If that is the case, yep, but even if successful doesn't lend well to treating wild game populations - yet.  The oral path if I remember correctly was through the nose, tonsils, and rectum correct?  I don't think the study utilized ingested vaccination?

The PREVENT study failed spectacularly, but they keep trying.  Canada has seemed to spend more historically per capita on CWD research than the U.S. sadly.  

I think a CWD vaccine cure may come from research related to other human contracted TSEs as people simply don't care about big bucks as much as human life ;o)


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1/29/18 @ 11:30 AM
amaranthlost
amaranthlost
USER since 5/31/10

Just an FYI, there has been no licensed treatment for ANY prion disease, not just for CWD. The biggest challenge is the blood brain barrier and making vaccines that are BBB permeable. Even the one promising CWD vaccine (which was oral) needed several boosters after the initial treatment but did have an 80% success rate. 

Edited on 1/29/18 11:31 AM
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1/29/18 @ 10:25 AM
JC-Wisconsin
JC-Wisconsin
USER since 4/1/05

From Trouter:

"I will need to chat with a large game biologist about the survival of prions in wolf scat. "

You don't have to.  Read this study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4964857/

"Humans reduce the spread of CWD by reducing deer density. This is done by banning baiting. "

False.  Reducing deer density has not shown to reduce the rate of spread of CWD except where major culling efforts have been undertaken by the State of Illinois.  This is the only record showing SLOWED rate of spread, and this is done by basically removing the deer herd in large areas.  Once you kill all the deer and prevent them from coming back to the area for at least a decade, you don't have to be concerned with it spreading further....makes sense doesn't it?  If we kill all the deer so the deer don't die in another manner, then you have solved the CWD puzzle.  

That being said, the spread is INCREASING geographically in Illinois, and does not appear to be impacted to any measurable degree by culling.  In addition, no measurable impact for rate of spread has been proven where baiting was always banned, or to areas where bans were introduced.  I have harped on this for years....banning baiting will have no measurable impact on CWD rate of spread.  For most diseases, banning baiting makes sense.  If you learn the epidemiology of the disease, you will quickly determine why CWD cannot be stopped, and very highly doubtful it can even be slowed to any measurable degree.  Sorry, but the banning baiting reduces spread argument has been rebunked as predicted by many scientists.  I personally believe bait bans are a result of making it appear that managers are "doing something".

"Humans reduce the spread of CWD by tight control of deer farms that have DWD infected deer. "

CWD has likely been introduced to wild deer from infected escaped deer.  I do agree that tight control over deer movement from farm to farm, requiring double fencing, etc. can prevent new disease from occurring.  Once wild deer are infected, there is no reduction of spread possible short of killing off all/most of the deer in the infected area for at least a decade.

" Humans impact CWD by lowering the deer density in areas where the disease is present. This is accomplished via increased hunting tags made available to hunters. "

See above.

"Humans impact CWD by researching the disease and making informed public policy decisions. "

False, and false.  Research - little research money is available for CWD.  Hence, little is understood and no attainable oral vaccine is readily available since CWD was discovered 50+ years ago.  Our best bet to get research to assist is if CWD completes the species jump to humans or cows, or if research results in potential cures for CJD, Alzheimer's, or other diseases where funding is more available.  Many of the degenerative brain disease involve prion or suspected prion activity, and this may translate into treating other non-human diseases.  There is still some ongoing debate that prions are simply a symptom of disease, and not necessarily the cause.  Read articles about spiroplasma bacteria and the work by Frank Bastian at LSU, and this may reveal to you that many years and millions of dollars have been spent to cure a problem which potentially may not even be the cause.

Policy decisions?  A joke by our own WDNR.  This is quoted right from the DNR press release on the recent positive test in Lincoln County:

"While there is no silver bullet remedy to eradicate CWD, we have learned from experience that having the local community involved is a key factor in managing this disease."

What?!?!  Sorry WDNR, the "learned from experience" is that nobody can "manage" the disease, and no local community can impact the disease in any way.  I have no idea what they are referring to.  They have not, and cannot possibly, slow or stop the spread of CWD.  There is no "key factor," and this is frankly another line in the long line of BS being presented by WI and other states/provinces in this regard.   Illinois is the only state/province with any success in slowing the spread of disease, and even they still are experiencing fast geographic spread.  They may be able to delay the disease from infecting a large percentage of the herd for an extra couple of years, only by maintaining deer at unhuntable levels through sharpshooting.  They are attempting to sell us a car with a bad transmission.


Edited on 1/29/18 10:26 AM
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1/29/18 @ 7:21 AM
Steve White
Steve White
USER since 3/17/04

Guess my point was blurred with my passion of the subject. Yes, there are a few wolves around Adams County. Have been for a long time. First wolf I seen in the wild was 1987 in the Mt Morris swap near Wautoma. Not enough though yet to have a big impact.  Or to open the eyes of folks to how bad things are getting in the north. Especially with the way the DNR tries to hide things.

There is no doubt feeding deer brings the wolves near our towns. Just like all other predators. We are familar with the wagon wheel effect when it comes to deer feeding. Dont think I have ever seen it stated the wolves also falling into the same wagon wheel effect. Just on a much larger scale if you think about it. Being that they travel more. Their circle encompassing the deer herds in many separate locations.  Now doing things that are not in the standard text books. Multiple packs crossing circles so to speak at different times. Wedyven last fall in an interview said that the books are having to be rewritten as the wolf is adapting.  They have to adapt to be successful. Everything adapts to its environment. That is what should scare all of us!!

Wolves have been, and are being documented in all parts of the state. The dnr will tell us these are most likely just loners. Traveling, and looking for new territory, other packs, etc.  These are the ones that really should be a cause for concern. They may just pass through a southern county. What if it's around this time of year. When the coyotes are begining to breed. Now you suddenly have coywolves in those areas. That is a huge problem.  Just seen a couple pics yesterday. Of 2 coyotes that came up to a fenced yard near Indianapolis. 2 dogs on the other side not happy about it. Both easily 50-60lb boxers, or a breed similar. These coyotes were larger than the dogs. No doubt coywolves!!  That is scary, but a bit amazing if you ponder it.

Rikj, I believe you are right.  As I stated to start my passion is starting to blur things.  It's hard to sit back, and watch things slowly be destroyed.  Not even that slow really.  Every year more is lost. So many areas folks just cant hunt anymore.  When you cant even take a close ranging dog bird hunting in some areas anymore. That is a hard pill to swallow. That's what many people just dont understand. Why some of us are getting more vocal.  We have all seen how bad the western states have been impacted. Watching it happen here in WI is hard to take. Becomes easy I suppose for passion to blur the education aspect of it  all.  Which is more important in stopping this destruction.  It's going to take many years to get back what has already been lost. Only going to get worse, before it even begins to get better. 

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1/28/18 @ 9:39 PM
trouter
trouter
USER since 7/3/01

We live in rural Adams County.  We have had wolves around here for 20 years.


I hunt, trap and fish both down here in the Dells and I camp and hunt/fish in Iron, Ashland and Bayfield counties.  But most of my time afield is in Adams County.

Yes, there are more wolves above Hwy 8.  But state policy is statewide policy, not just one part of the state.


My interests are in the overall wolf management plan.  Not just one part of it.


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1/28/18 @ 9:37 PM
ihookem
ihookem
USER since 11/29/01

It sure seems like there are a lot of wolves where Steve White lives. There is also hardly a doubt if there are that many wolves so close to town there are a lot of deer there, near town and around the lakes. There is no doubt the deer are there cause people are feeding them. No?

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1/28/18 @ 8:49 PM
rikj
rikj
USER since 7/29/01

Steve take a few deep breaths and settle down..............your once good informative posts are becoming rambling rants directed at anyone who does not see things your way, or live north of the wolf line (Hwy 8)............

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Displaying 60 to 69 of 498 Posts