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North lake, Wauk. Cty. Boat launch, WHATS THE HANGUP?

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Flytrap
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6/29/08 4:31 PM CST
I'd say make sure you have somebody to stay with the gear while retrieving the car, or finding a different place to fish. Somehow, I just don't see waiting on the DNR as a viable option. Too much like a political campaign promise, and nobody really believes those.

Of course,you could try to interest a sportsman's organization to fund a boat ramp, but that may be as successful as waiting for the DNR.

Displaying Posts 1 through 15 of 92
nihsif
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9/2/14 7:15 PM CST
back to the original plan... the public waits n waits whilst money talks

progress, I guess...and I'm still kickin', maybe I make it out there yet

http://www.livinglakecountry.com/lakecountryreporter/news/north-lake-management-district-launch-site-application-filed-pending-approval-b99340768z1-273215351.html

nihsif
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7/19/14 8:21 AM CST
was for residents, otherwise I would have gone... searched all over for some meeting note, or public account, but found nothing

CHRIS TERRY
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7/18/14 1:40 PM CST
Did anyone go to the meeting in late June? I was wondering what the land-owner group was proposing...and if there was any resistance to their plan.

I wouldn't mind reading it either.

nihsif
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6/3/14 3:50 PM CST
nihsif
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5/9/14 11:15 AM CST
you asked about what false testimony... it was outlined in the ruling by the judge

-------property owners lies

" "Boldt noted that an expert witness for the opponents of the boat launch had failed to prove there were "objective characteristics" of a navigable stream within the wetlands.

"Rather, it seems like a fictional construct of a group of nearby private riparian owners who are unhappy to be sharing this area of public waters with a public boat ramp. But the public waters of Wisconsin belong to the residents of the state and are held in trust for all of them, not just lake property owners," Boldt concluded." "

-----

there was "stern" wording by the judge in that part of the case against the property owners for trying to falsify a claim that the DNR property was going to be constructed in a navigable stream

so the property owners constructed a lie...and apparently, the DNR didn't follow some administrative procedure properly

---DNR protocol error

"For the past decade, the NLMD and the Reddelien Road Neighborhood Association (RRND) have been battling the DNR over the development of the site. The DNR previously insisted that the launch be on the west shore of the lake and issued itself the permits necessary for construction of the project.

But Waukesha County Circuit Court Judge Mac Davis ruled last May that those self-issued permits were invalid, reversing two earlier decisions by an administrative law judge that were favorable to the DNR."

---------

I will summarize from my POV

originally, the DNR wanted to put the launch in town, where there was access before...even though that would require expensive dredging from time to time to remove silt carried in by the river

Condominium owners near that site, didn't want to have a launch "in their backyard", so they took the DNR to court...

...DNR acquired the property on Reddelien Road to accommodate the condo property owners, and put in a site that would require less maintenance costs

Property owners at the Reddelien Road site, didn't want to have a launch "in their backyard", so they took the DNR to court...

So, while this was going on for decades...the public was the pawn while the the bullies beat up on each other in court

from my perspective, it boiled down to a battle of will and $$$$, plus having a state representative going after the DNR for spending too much $$$ on the battle took the will from the DNR to continue the battle, plus the anti's finding the right judge...

...and viola! the launch is going in at the original site

score a W for the Reddelien group, and an L for the condo owners

and the public may finally get decent access to North lake after waiting for the giant pissing match to conclude

[This post was last edited on 5/9/14 at 11:17 AM]
Pearle68
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5/8/14 4:25 PM CST
Different case than what I was commenting on. The judge disagreed with their assertions and the manner in which it was collected.

That case ties to the decisive one that I was commenting on in that the DNR and Judge challenged the residents assertion that it was a navigable waterway and the judge ruled that their evidence didn't suffice.

The reason that the DNR lost ultimately is they never did their dilligence prior to applying for and granting themselves a permit. That is why they lost. That is what the DNR has been ordered to never do again.

The DNR and other government entities must be held to the same standards, laws and rules that we are or we will all pay a price. (Even if we like what they are doing!) That's what the decisive case was about.

Thanks for the engagement - fun to argue this over a beer.

nihsif
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5/8/14 12:40 PM CST
I'm sure we would get along just fine.

my post from May 2012

as long as a launch gets built, I'm in no mood for a stupid battle of opinion

as far a easy launching, explain that to any handicapped or limited mobility fishers... I'm sure that they would agree

..................... from May , 2012 ( added some relevant links including the judges ruling )

more on recent ruling

http://www.livinglakecountry.com/lakecountryreporter/news/dnr-wins-a-round-in-north-lake-battle-v45as6s-150799455.html

thought this excerpt from the judge's ruling was interesting:

"Boldt noted that an expert witness for the opponents of the boat launch had failed to prove there were "objective characteristics" of a navigable stream within the wetlands.

"Rather, it seems like a fictional construct of a group of nearby private riparian owners who are unhappy to be sharing this area of public waters with a public boat ramp. But the public waters of Wisconsin belong to the residents of the state and are held in trust for all of them, not just lake property owners," Boldt concluded."

....the fictional construct he was referencing was outlined in item 14 of the official ruling

"The next best effort by the petitioners to identify the area as a stream was present in the testimony of Mr. Reinbold. As Reinbold credibly testified, there is no question that that there has been regular flooding in the area and that water has flowed both away from and toward the lake along a line roughly consistent with that drawn by O'Reilly. But that does not make this area a stream.

Significantly, no aerial photographs were presented that identified a navigable water that presented itself objectively over time nor was any evidence presented to establish a definite stream channel. Rather, historic aerial photos from 1941 to 2010 do not support the existence of a specific flowing stream channel in this area.

Further, the day the kayak was paddled and filmed in the grove of trees, July 15, 2010 , followed a particularly wet month of June and the second highest rain events in July of that year. Ms Hanson testified that she had not previously navigated anywhere on the DNR property. Moreover, Ms. Hansen paddled the area on the specific day that she was directed to by O'Reilly.

Overall, the minimal facts presented do not support a conclusion that a navigable water exists in the grove of trees. Rather, the area meets the legal definition of diffuse surface waters in a floodplain.""

---------more info

EDIT: the judges rulinghttp://media.jsonline.com/documents/northlakeruling.pdf

http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/judge-rejects-bid-to-block-public-access-at-north-lake-i85aios-150504405.html

[This post was last edited on 5/8/14 at 12:53 PM]
Pearle68
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5/8/14 11:48 AM CST
My post is factually correct. I don't know what testimony you're referring to. I've followed this case and I read the ruling by the judge throwing the DNR's permits out and ordering them not to follow that "process" again.

PM me and I'll send you a copy to read.

There is access to North Lake in the river. No state of lawlessness exists. People can and do access the lake every day. It's much easier than the DNR launch on Beaver and, for many, easier than the launch on Oconomowoc.

The launch is closer to opening now that the DNR's permits have been thrown out than it has been for years.

I'll look for you out there when it does

nihsif
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5/8/14 9:57 AM CST
you omitted the false testimony by members about the runoff on that land too... it goes both ways

but I am committed to just wait and see if the law of the land prevails, and access is ONCE AGAIN granted to the public

Pearle68
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5/8/14 8:57 AM CST
Uncle Smallie is trying to poke at your nerve(s) with his comments...he's having a little fun.

NIHSIF has posted for years that this was being held up by the lake association with "bogus lawsuits"...money trumping the rights of access to WI waters.

I posted when they first insisted on purchasing that land without doing due dilligence that it would be 10+ years before a launch was on North Lake. This started back in 2006ish, don't recall exactly. They purchased that land without a road to get to it, without doing a wetland or water runoff study. They issued themselves permits without doing that same dilligence. They can (could) so they did - they are the DNR, those rules are for other people.

It is on this, the law that all must follow, that the permits the DNR issued themselves were thrown out. This is not a technicality this is fundamental premise that government must follow the laws, the same laws, that private citizens/entities follow. The WI DNR habitually did not with respect to issuing themselves permits. Private citizens on North Lake that funded it themselves primarily with their time (they are attorneys) and with donations called them on this and they won.

The judge not only threw out the permits for this project and told them to follow their own process, he also ordered them not to follow this "process" any more. It was a strongly worded judgement and order to the DNR. This was not a technicality.

It's easy to criticize the people that challenged this as getting in the way of something that you want. I'd be careful because the time may/will come when you are being hurt by government violating the law or going beyond their lawful authority. People with the ability to stand up and hold this behavior at bay help us all that may not have the ability or means to do so.

The DNR is full of excellent people doing great stuff in WI. Like all organizations, people can and do make mistakes, act out of emotion/price, etc and in this case that's what happened.

My prediction is launch opens in 2016 in Town of North Lake in the north bay.

Meanwhile there were 10 boats that launched in the river on opening day. It's not that hard.

nihsif
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4/9/14 8:27 AM CST
I would add, that I enjoy your posts about where you are living now, and appreciate how you are living... it is the sportsman's dream...congratulations on that... it looks like a beautiful spot and home

I can understand your position, somewhat, but simply disagree with it

no matter what a person's personal feelings are, the waters of Wisconsin are a treasure to be shared by all, and our lawmakers made that point very clear many years ago

nihsif
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4/9/14 8:17 AM CST
totally agree with the American dream and the opportunity that freedom allows us all.

don't agree with breaking the law... a law that is intended to provide that very same freedom to have an opportunity to access Wisonsonsin's water for the public

unclesmallie
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4/9/14 8:10 AM CST
Money does by privilege. That's what makes America great. The opportunity to be all you can be. What a great incentive to become educated an live large.

nihsif
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4/9/14 7:43 AM CST
who says money doesn't buy privilege... even when it breaks the law

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/waterways/about_us/doctrine.htm

unclesmallie
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4/9/14 7:35 AM CST
The DNR said in September that it would not appeal the decision, saying that a "cooling-off period" was necessary to calm tensions between the parties.

It is my hope the "cooling off period lasts 100 years. I feel the price of admission is something that needs to be acknowledged. Front row seats brings front row prices. It is much like first class vs coach. The cost of property and taxes on North is extreme, perhaps North needs to remain the jewel that it is. There are a number of other area lakes with public launches available for public use. Both the DNR and citizens of Wi. know and understand the impact of over use of our lakes.

Displaying Posts 1 through 15 of 92
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